Is it okay to buy from known smugglers?

is it okay, in your opinion, to buy tarantulas from smugglers?


  • Total voters
    56

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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No matter how you look at things some of your wild caught specimens that produced where smuggled so technically we are supporting these sellers.
 
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Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Known smugglers being- they are or were?

My opinions, if they are STILL smuggling and not trying to do it the legal way. No. I wouldn't support.

If they HAVE smuggled, but it's been a long time and they are currently doing it the legal way, then yes. Why not?
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Aug 1, 2009
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known smugglers. if you unknowingly buy smuggled spiders its not your fault.
@Redneck are.
Okay. If I know someone is smuggling. I won't support them.

I'm just curious if this question is geared towards a certain dealer or is this about another member? Or is this just a curious question in general.
 

Jeff23

Arachnolord
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Jul 27, 2016
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I think things get cloudy when we talk about "bad for the hobby". There are loads of wild caught adult Aphonopelma chalcodes and others that are being sold by legitimate dealers. Is it legal....Maybe (I am not familiar with state and local laws in the regions where they are taken). Is it good for the tarantula environment and hobby? No. Any business that does complain about smugglers, but then sells these is just as bad. But that is just my opinion.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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A lot of the captive born Xenesthis species, Chilobrachys sp. Electric Blue, Panphobeteus species etc came from parents that were smuggled out of the country. So it doesn't matter who has it these spiders will and are on the market and are being sold regardless of how we feel about it.
 

Venom1080

Arachnoemperor
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Sep 24, 2015
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Okay. If I know someone is smuggling. I won't support them.

I'm just curious if this question is geared towards a certain dealer or is this about another member? Or is this just a curious question in general.
i saw another thread with this topic and was interested in what people thought.

@Exoskeleton Invertebrates thats unavoidable, as long as its not a PB kind of thing. i think thats unfair, to the ecosystem and to other dealers.
 

14pokies

Arachnoprince
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Oct 25, 2014
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We all make mistakes..ONLY snitching is unforgivable So as long as the smuggler took his lumps and didn't let it roll down hill I could care less ;)...

As Jose has stated a number of species that we have now are descendents of illegally aquired stock..
 

sdsnybny

Arachnogeek
Arachnosupporter
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Apr 29, 2015
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A certain unnamed dealer payed their debt according to current law at the time, and is openly selling/importing including posting all permits/licensees on their website. As long as they are currently on the up and up they deserve a second chance just as anybody that has paid their dues. We really cant know for certain about any dealers legitimacy without being on the inside looking out. I think a lot of what is said/started about pricing is just competition not willing to lower their margins or deal in enough volume to have some of the lowest prices out there. In the end its a choice each individual has to make regarding weather they will spend the $$$ with some one that got caught versus the rest which we don't have a clue if they were/are legit. Anybody that has been through the legal system for that particular offense is probably the most scrutinized in the business by USFW. the others who knows.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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A certain unnamed dealer payed their debt according to current law at the time, and is openly selling/importing including posting all permits/licensees on their website. As long as they are currently on the up and up they deserve a second chance just as anybody that has paid their dues. We really cant know for certain about any dealers legitimacy without being on the inside looking out. I think a lot of what is said/started about pricing is just competition not willing to lower their margins or deal in enough volume to have some of the lowest prices out there. In the end its a choice each individual has to make regarding weather they will spend the $$$ with some one that got caught versus the rest which we don't have a clue if they were/are legit. Anybody that has been through the legal system for that particular offense is probably the most scrutinized in the business by USFW. the others who knows.
The unnamed dealer has done it more than once as a matter of fact back in the 90's. Caught a few times and still hanging around.
 

N1ghtFire

Arachnoknight
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Jun 17, 2016
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173
Known smugglers being- they are or were?

My opinions, if they are STILL smuggling and not trying to do it the legal way. No. I wouldn't support.

If they HAVE smuggled, but it's been a long time and they are currently doing it the legal way, then yes. Why not?
We all make mistakes..ONLY snitching is unforgivable So as long as the smuggler took his lumps and didn't let it roll down hill I could care less ;)...

As Jose has stated a number of species that we have now are descendents of illegally aquired stock..
A certain unnamed dealer payed their debt according to current law at the time, and is openly selling/importing including posting all permits/licensees on their website. As long as they are currently on the up and up they deserve a second chance just as anybody that has paid their dues. We really cant know for certain about any dealers legitimacy without being on the inside looking out. I think a lot of what is said/started about pricing is just competition not willing to lower their margins or deal in enough volume to have some of the lowest prices out there. In the end its a choice each individual has to make regarding weather they will spend the $$$ with some one that got caught versus the rest which we don't have a clue if they were/are legit. Anybody that has been through the legal system for that particular offense is probably the most scrutinized in the business by USFW. the others who knows.
I agree with all of these opinions. Plus what the certain unnamed dealer did was many years ago.. people change and grow a lot over the years, to the point that the person we were years ago could be completely replaced by a new person with new morals, attitude and exepriences. The person we were years ago may not even exist anymore. I personally don't think it is fair to judge someone by who they were rather than who they are. We have all done things we likely aren't proud of. Life is hard, we all have to deal with it, so just go easy on eachother and try not to be to harsh.

That doesn't completely pertain to judging someone who specifically smuggled tarantulas, but that is my outlook on making judgements about any human at all.
 

Realevil1

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
56
I myself buy only captive bred and/or captive hatched. Won't buy imports for many reasons.

But I think one big thing to consider is, if an unknowing buyer purchases an animal from a "smuggler", the choice to purchase an animal marked field collected or wild caught is, in the end, made by the buyer. If us as individuals in the hobby stopped buying wild caught, Then there would be no demand for it.

Also Im sure most would agree that not many know about certain sellers bad reputations if they are not in the loop already.
I don't. Others don't.

If a someone buys stock from a supplier thousands of miles away, how are they supposed to know that supplier is a smuggler?
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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Germans made a fortune selling the babies of gravid WC 0.1 specimens during years, and only very few (I'm one) pointed out that fact.

I buy only from Italian breeders, 100% CB, and if needed (genus Brachypelma, P.imperator and everything that falls into CITES) I have CITES papers, signed by the Italian CITES authorities :-s

Here:

thumbnail_DSC_0454.jpg

A thread I've started about, btw:

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/cites-paper.285652/
 

Marijan2

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
505
Honestly it really depends on a lot of things. If not for smugglers we wouldn't probably have half as species we have now in hobby. But unless 100% necesserily i'll always buy fairly imported or CB ones. Don't get me wrong, i'm not supporting it, but they helped our hobby quite a bit.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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Dec 25, 2014
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Would you hire a convicted pedophile as a babysitter?
Muahahah, good one! I supposed happened, my man, anyway. With John Wayne Gacy, probably.

I mean, he had even a First Lady picture = "therefore a good man, worth of trust" for dummies, just like those elder in Italy that can't figure out that, no matter a class A tie and a jacket, a scammer remain a scammer :-s
 

KezyGLA

Arachnoking
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Apr 8, 2016
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Would you hire a convicted pedophile as a babysitter?
heheh I think that is rather harsh. I am an ex-convict (not a sexual one) but I am judged everywhere I go. Even though my crimes were a decade ago. I know I have put myself in this situation so try to help give back to my communities, even 9 years on. I found a new path after education inside prison and am glad to say I am completely different from the person I once was. I have been reformed.

Though when it comes to people that have a sexual interest in something, it doesnt change.

As for smugglers, there is a well known shop in the UK that was founded by an ex-smuggler and is now the most trusted and respected place to buy arachnids. They still sell WC. I have done business with these shop but I have mostly bought their CB stock or WC males in order for breeding. I will normally go to them for my Livefood.

I believe there is some species that should not be captured from the wild. If there was a way to limit numbers of specimens brought from the wild it would be a perfect world. I am still for the most part against smugglers as (obviously) the more you take from the wild the more endangered they get :(
 
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