Iridopelma sp pinkburst

[curtisgiganteus]

Nah, the entire discussion is how he got these things. If I posted a picture of a nuclear weapon in my garage, I'd expect a whole lot of questions about where I got it and not so many compliments on what a nice piece of weaponry I have.

I agree

 

[blackzilla]

This Iridopelma is not even a listed or "registered species", it's technically an off grid specimen. At the end of the day we can only speculate that it is found exclusively in Brazil. None of us know where to collect it. We're are just assuming at this point.

 

[l4nsky]

NMBE - World Spider Catalog

Detailed taxonomic information about the spider families

www.wsc.nmbe.ch

All species of Iridopelma are are endemic to Brazil

This Iridopelma is not even a listed or "registered species", it's technically an off grid specimen. At the end of the day we can only speculate that it is found exclusively in Brazil. None of us know where to collect it. We're are just assuming at this point.

All DESCRIBED Iridiopelma species up to this point are endemic to Brazil. This is an UNDESCRIBED species BELIEVED to be Iridiopelma. There's a big difference there and Phormingochilus spp are a good example of this. All described species are from Borneo, yet we've had Phormingochilus sp Rufus in the trade for years and they're collected on Java. So is the genus only endemic to Borneo and P. sp Rufus isn't a member, or do we need to rethink using geography as a key distinction in identifying species from Phormingochilus? The same question applies to Iridopelma spp, but in an even more profound way IMO. With Phormingochilus sp, there is atleast a physical ocean barrier between Borneo and Java. With Iridiopelma, there is only a political barrier between Brazil and Guyana (where OP has stated these are collected). Do you think they require passports to move from one tree on the Brazilian side of the imaginary line to a tree on the Guyana side of the imaginary line lol?

 

[John Apple]

The op smuggled these in....plain and simple
Plenty of information about this on face book....I won't piss of the arachnoruler above all (Debby) by posting 20 screenshots .....but they are easy to find and were turned in to the proper authorities

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

The op smuggled these in....plain and simple
Plenty of information about this on face book....I won't piss of the arachnoruler above all (Debby) by posting 20 screenshots .....but they are easy to find and were turned in to the proper authorities

Disappointing, but not surprising. I guess it would be in the best interest of everyone who wants to buy a new species to the market to ask for a copy of collection and/ or export permits from the source country before buying. In this specific case, the travel information for Guyana as stated on the web site of the U.S. Department of State clearly says "An export permit is required by the Ministry of Agriculture to take an exotic animal or plant out of Guyana, and an import permit is required by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to bring an exotic animal or plant into the United States." If these Guyanan tarantulas were legal, then the individual should be able to provide all proper documentation for them. But if you trust someone, you wouldn't think to lookup a foreign country's wildlife exportation laws and ask for documentation. Buyer beware.

Sources:

Guyana International travel Information

Guyana international travel information and Travel Advisory

travel.state.gov

Ministry of Agriculture

agriculture.gov.gy

 

[Tarantuland]

Disappointing, but not surprising. I guess it would be in the best interest of everyone who wants to buy a new species to the market to ask for a copy of collection and/ or export permits from the source country before buying. In this specific case, the travel information for Guyana as stated on the web site of the U.S. Department of State clearly says "An export permit is required by the Ministry of Agriculture to take an exotic animal or plant out of Guyana, and an import permit is required by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to bring an exotic animal or plant into the United States." If these Guyanan tarantulas were legal, then the individual should be able to provide all proper documentation for them. But if you trust someone, you wouldn't think to lookup a foreign country's wildlife exportation laws and ask for documentation. Buyer beware.

Sources:

Guyana International travel Information

Guyana international travel information and Travel Advisory

travel.state.gov

Ministry of Agriculture

agriculture.gov.gy

This is a Brazilian species, OP has a guy from Brazil sending them to him.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

This is a Brazilian species, OP has a guy from Brazil sending them to him.

Good to know I guess, but where these tarantulas were originally collected is irrelevant. The point I was making was that there are many countries that don't allow the exportation of their wildlife without a permit, and with so many cases of smuggling coming to light in recent years people buying tarantulas need to perform their due diligence and question how they ended up in the United States, or whatever country the tarantulas are not native.

Just off of the top of my head the South American countries of Chile, Guyana, Brazil, and Uruguay have some kind of restriction on their wildlife exports so any species coming from those countries- especially new ones- appearing on American price lists need to be considered suspicious. Even tarantulas of the genus Aphonopelma collected from and sold within the United States need to be questioned since it isn't known which were collected from national parks or other areas where collecting wildlife would be illegal without a permit. Also, if an exotic species of tarantula has the phrase "national park" appearing next to the scientific name on a price list, one should probably think twice about buying it.

To be 100% clear here I'm not accusing anyone of any wrong doing, I don't know the facts in any case and I don't care to, I'm just suggesting that people need to start asking more questions about where these tarantulas come from and to start asking for provenance before buying tarantulas these days.

 

[curtisgiganteus]

Good to know I guess, but where these tarantulas were originally collected is irrelevant. The point I was making was that there are many countries that don't allow the exportation of their wildlife without a permit, and with so many cases of smuggling coming to light in recent years people buying tarantulas need to perform their due diligence and question how they ended up in the United States, or whatever country the tarantulas are not native.

Just off of the top of my head the South American countries of Chile, Guyana, Brazil, and Uruguay have some kind of restriction on their wildlife exports so any species coming from those countries- especially new ones- appearing on American price lists need to be considered suspicious. Even tarantulas of the genus Aphonopelma collected from and sold within the United States need to be questioned since it isn't known which were collected from national parks or other areas where collecting wildlife would be illegal without a permit. Also, if an exotic species of tarantula has the phrase "national park" appearing next to the scientific name on a price list, one should probably think twice about buying it.

To be 100% clear here I'm not accusing anyone of any wrong doing, I don't know the facts in any case and I don't care to, I'm just suggesting that people need to start asking more questions about where these tarantulas come from and to start asking for provenance before buying tarantulas these days.

I agree, however iirc there are no regulations on invertebrates not specifically protected in the US even from National Parks. I grew up catching Aphonopelma in CA and was once stopped by a park ranger and he went through my catch of the day and said none of it was regulated or against removing by law. I’ll need to do more research to see if things are still that way 15 years later however

 

[klawfran3]

I agree, however iirc there are no regulations on invertebrates not specifically protected in the US even from National Parks. I grew up catching Aphonopelma in CA and was once stopped by a park ranger and he went through my catch of the day and said none of it was regulated or against removing by law. I’ll need to do more research to see if things are still that way 15 years later however

That's not true anymore at least, collection of invertebrates on national park land is illegal, you are not allowed to take anything from the national parks, especially living creatures. BLM and Forest service land tend to be exceptions, but they can vary regionally, state by state, and even between different public lands, eg. State recreation areas/monuments often don't allow, but general unnamed BLM land does, although both are managed by the BLM. It entirely depends on the state and the local agencies. I recommend *always* calling before going out collecting, especially on land you're not familiar with, because sometimes even if it's legal there you can still have a ranger having a bad day give you trouble. And a great way to get permission for unfamiliar or questionable areas is to show up at their office and ask, usually with some baked goods and pastries for them just make sure to get the permission in writing.

Don't forget! Poaching bugs can technically carry the same sentence as poaching a deer or elk. Even if you're taking a few flies for a bug collection or spiders as pets. And pissing off the rangers is a great way to have them throw the book at you.

Here's a great resource: https://www.theskepticalmoth.com/collecting-permits/

 

[curtisgiganteus]

That's not true anymore at least, collection of invertebrates on national park land is illegal, you are not allowed to take anything from the national parks, especially living creatures. BLM and Forest service land tend to be exceptions, but they can vary regionally, state by state, and even between different public lands, eg. State recreation areas/monuments often don't allow, but general unnamed BLM land does, although both are managed by the BLM. It entirely depends on the state and the local agencies. I recommend *always* calling before going out collecting, especially on land you're not familiar with, because sometimes even if it's legal there you can still have a ranger having a bad day give you trouble. And a great way to get permission for unfamiliar or questionable areas is to show up at their office and ask, usually with some baked goods and pastries for them just make sure to get the permission in writing.

Don't forget! Poaching bugs can technically carry the same sentence as poaching a deer or elk. Even if you're taking a few flies for a bug collection or spiders as pets. And pissing off the rangers is a great way to have them throw the book at you.

Here's a great resource: https://www.theskepticalmoth.com/collecting-permits/

I appreciate the resource! Thank you. I was planning on going back to Cali for a couple weeks in august just to go T collecting so this is useful