Intelligent water usage?

[Ungweliante]

I've been away from home for a while, which made me think of the following issue:

If a spider has a full water dish for one day a week, and the water dish is completely empty for the rest of the week, will the spider notice the water in the dish and drink from it during that one day?
Basically, do they have some kind of "moisture sense", which enables them to find water in the nature? Or is it based just purely on luck?

All opinions are welcome.

 

[green_bottle_04]

I've been away from home for a while, which made me think of the following issue:

If a spider has a full water dish for one day a week, and the water dish is completely empty for the rest of the week, will the spider notice the water in the dish and drink from it during that one day?
Basically, do they have some kind of "moisture sense", which enables them to find water in the nature? Or is it based just purely on luck?

All opinions are welcome.

from what i understand, its just luck. they wander around and look for water when they are thirsty and when they "feel" it with their legs or pedipalps they then drink. thats the way i understand it....though i could be wrong...

 

[common spider]

I thought that they did know when there is water near by????But I am no expert.

 

[Code Monkey]

They can most likely sense close water through sensory pits that detect humidity gradients. Additionally, unless you're some sort of uber ninja, the very act of you putting the water in the dish is as clear to them as somebody with a jackhammer in your bedroom at 4AM, and they are sophisticated enough to learn to associate these sorts of disturbances with the new presence of water and/or food.

Just watch your Ts. They may slap at the water as you fill it or otherwise run and hide from the accute disturbance, but a short while later you will find them carefully investigating the water dish if they were in need of a drink.

Lack of consciousness or abstract intelligence does not make these creatures some sort of bumbling automatons without incredible sophistication for navigating the "world" they live in.

 

[common spider]

That is so dam true Code Monkey your very smart.

 

[maxident213]

They can most likely sense close water through sensory pits that detect humidity gradients. Additionally, unless you're some sort of uber ninja, the very act of you putting the water in the dish is as clear to them as somebody with a jackhammer in your bedroom at 4AM, and they are sophisticated enough to learn to associate these sorts of disturbances with the new presence of water and/or food.

Just watch your Ts. They may slap at the water as you fill it or otherwise run and hide from the accute disturbance, but a short while later you will find them carefully investigating the water dish if they were in need of a drink.

Lack of consciousness or abstract intelligence does not make these creatures some sort of bumbling automatons without incredible sophistication for navigating the "world" they live in.

That was indeed a fine post. :clap:

 

[Ando55]

That was indeed a fine post. :clap:

I agree, very informative and really explains the topic!

 

[bonesmama]

Exactly! If T's were completely unsophisticated beings, they would not have survived unchanged for so long - they would have had to adapt, or become extinct!

 

[zarko]

i dont think that classic inprinting can be done with tz. like the Pavlov's dogs can... if u know what i meen.the simple reason is the T nervous sistem can not recognise two cinds of stimuslus if u want inprinting to happemd.
but that they can addupt to those connditions sure ..
sorry i can not explane it better cause my neglish is not good in this fild ...

 

[zarko]

like its any good

 

[Code Monkey]

i dont think that classic inprinting can be done with tz. like the Pavlov's dogs can... if u know what i meen.the simple reason is the T nervous sistem can not recognise two cinds of stimuslus if u want inprinting to happemd.

No, classic imprinting has been demonstrated with Ts many times by hobbyists. Search for Darren Vernier's experience with not only one T learning to "bang its water dish" to signal it needed water, but some other Ts in his collection learning this.

Now, while I don't know of any peer reviewed studies showing this with tarantulas, learning of this sort is well established with inverts no more or less sophisticated than a tarantula. The notion that inverts can't learn by association or imprinting is complete falsehood.

 

[Talkenlate04]

They can most likely sense close water through sensory pits that detect humidity gradients. Additionally, unless you're some sort of uber ninja, the very act of you putting the water in the dish is as clear to them as somebody with a jackhammer in your bedroom at 4AM, and they are sophisticated enough to learn to associate these sorts of disturbances with the new presence of water and/or food.

Just watch your Ts. They may slap at the water as you fill it or otherwise run and hide from the accute disturbance, but a short while later you will find them carefully investigating the water dish if they were in need of a drink.

Lack of consciousness or abstract intelligence does not make these creatures some sort of bumbling automatons without incredible sophistication for navigating the "world" they live in.

Code I can always depend on you to sum it all up using the most 10 point vocab words. Its a pleasure to read your posts!

 

[cacoseraph]

No, classic imprinting has been demonstrated with Ts many times by hobbyists. Search for Darren Vernier's experience with not only one T learning to "bang its water dish" to signal it needed water, but some other Ts in his collection learning this.

Now, while I don't know of any peer reviewed studies showing this with tarantulas, learning of this sort is well established with inverts no more or less sophisticated than a tarantula. The notion that inverts can't learn by association or imprinting is complete falsehood.

my favorite thing to reference is the fact that earthworms can learn to do simple T-shape mazes with food at one side of the T and an electric shock at the other. planerians can too, and iirc you can split up a planerian and feed it to a bunch of other ones and they will learn the maze much much faster

 

[Code Monkey]

iirc you can split up a planerian and feed it to a bunch of other ones and they will learn the maze much much faster

There are some absolutely mind blowing things with inverts learning. My favorite of this type was carried out with a roach and an electrified plate.

A roach will learn to hold a leg up as long as possible if by setting it down it receives an electric shock. Now, if you seal up the wound, a decapitated roach will live for quite a long time. So, if you repeat this experiment with a decapitated but alive roach who's never learned about this, it keeps setting its leg down on the plate and getting shocked. This much seems intuitive, roach with brain can learn to keep its leg lifted if it gets shocked, roach without brain can't. However, if you first teach a roach to hold its leg up to avoid the shocks and *then* decapitate it, the headless roach lifts and holds its leg just fine when shocked.

So, although the brain is necessary for learning the associative behavior, it is evidently stored in the ganglion responsible for controlling the leg motor movement

 

[tarangela2]

i had a g rosea once who would be in a water dish about 20 seconds after i placed it in the tank.

i used to think it was because he sensed the moisture but the "you putting the water in the dish is as clear to them as somebody with a jackhammer in your bedroom at 4AM" theory is perfectly logical.

 

[ErikH]

My a. geniculata frequently "attacks" the stream of water going into the dish, much the same way it attacks crickets.

 

[Ungweliante]

Another question then:

How long can an average healthy tarantula stay alive without water in about normal room temperature, considering that it has a "full water storage" on day 1? And how much does this differ based on species and the lifecycle status of the tarantula - if it's a sling / juvenile / adult?

Of course ambient humidity probably affects this situation quite a lot too, but let's assume that it's about 70%.

 

[ErikH]

Have you considered getting one of those little water dishes with a reservoir attached? I don't have one, but I'll bet they would keep water in the dish for more than a week.

 

[Ungweliante]

Have you considered getting one of those little water dishes with a reservoir attached? I don't have one, but I'll bet they would keep water in the dish for more than a week.

Actually no, but that's a good suggestion. Doesn't the water get stale, though?

However, that was not why I started this thread, but instead because there doesn't seem to be any info about those issues in the tarantula keeping books, like TTKG or TAOA.

 

[ErikH]

Is any thing like this available near you? http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_Product_R_3140_PC_productlist_Nav_253_N_27+106_cp_3_Nao_24_sku_925810_familyID_12454.aspx