Import Export Licensing specifics

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
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Okay, I know this has been talked about in previous threads, but I have not found any specifics. So lets try this again.

I'm working towards getting my permit right now. I am hoping that by this winter, or next spring, I will have enough money to do so. Although, I'm not really sure how much that is...

I want to facilitate mostly trades/sales of captive bred specimens from Europe and the rest of the world. I will only import unavailable wild caught species. I will not be importing common wild caught species. Mainly, I want to facilitate sling trades/sales.

SO,....

Does anyone know what all permits would be needed? I think there are multiple ones from different agencies, what agencies? Also, do you need permits for each shipment? Or do you just get the license?

Anyone have any info on requirements? Do I need an inspectable facility? What about costs?

Also, are there different permits for trading captive bred specimens vs. wild caught?

Again, I'm not interested in CITES species. Mostly captive bred trading with EU. I would like to be able to access Asia for our friends there too, depending on added cost etc...

Anything I'm forgetting?

Thanks ahead of time for your help.

P.S. I'm in a port city, New Orleans. So that is not an issue.
 

AzJohn

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Hi Nomad,
As you know I've done some research on this, here is a US fish and wildlife web site with some needed info.

http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Info_Importers_Exporters.htm

The real cost will be shipping and handling. Expect to spend around $1000. If you are doing a trade it makes much more since. PM me if you get close. I'll try and help with cost or livestock.


John
 

ButhidaeBomb

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i too can help pitch in if need be. ive actually got a few very very good leads on exporters.
 

Nomadinexile

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Thanks guys! :)

John, is that $1000 variable on numbers? Is it about the same regardless of whether it is 10, 100, or 1000?

And if you know, even just an average..., what would be the original licensing cost??? Are we talking $1000 or $5000? Also, do they require anything besides forms and cash? Do I need to have a facility they can inspect? Etc...

Thanks again! :clap:
 

psychofox

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Wouldn't the best option be to contact the appropriate authorities by phone or email and simply ask about the areas that are unclear to you (regarding costs, facilities etc.)? I would guess that this is the best way to get as accurate information as possible:)
 

ButhidaeBomb

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i know those questions were directed towards azjohn but i thought id chime in. from what i understand (in the past) the originaly permit for import/export of wildlife, i believe called a CITIES permit, is something like $300. im pretty sure within the lasy year, they extended the renewal time to 3 years. aside from the permit, there are fees like brokerage, shipping, customs certificates, etc etc. as far as i know, you do not have to quarentine or inspect invertebrates. i could be wrong but i think the quarentine protocol mainly adapts to mammals and birds. im sure they treat the import of scorpions the same as venomous snakes. its not hard to do, you just have to have the money to do it....hence the reasons most import shipments are loaded with tons of creatures. lowers the cost of the innitial import once you hit the resell point. gotta maximize profit margins or importing isnt worth it. unless your rich. i also do not think they charge per animal. im pretty sure the fees are rolled into one for EACH airbill number issued. you may have once single crate to an airbill or multiple. i.e: crate 1of4....2of4...and so on. those can and should all be put on the same airway bill number. it may be in your best intrest to see if you can contact some of the major importers and see if maybe they can give you some advice or currect info. if i were you, i would see if some of the reptile dealers in florida would let you pick their brain for a bit. more venomous and non-venomous snakes are imported than inverts. or on a more steady basis should i say. ill see if some of my old buds in the herpetological world can shed some info on this.
 

super-pede

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well i think u shout tak to ken the bug guy i was taking to hem about tat when the reptile show came to San Diego he will help u more on tat i think her is her link

http://www.kenthebugguy.com/
uhmmmm....what did you say?

Nomad, you are a brave man.Imean to get into exporting.I don't do it anymore since the prices were going through the roof.
I can give you the names of some of my exporters from laos, Cambodia,Vietnam,Thailand,Chinaand a few other countries if you'd like.
 

AzJohn

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Thanks guys! :)

John, is that $1000 variable on numbers? Is it about the same regardless of whether it is 10, 100, or 1000?

And if you know, even just an average..., what would be the original licensing cost??? Are we talking $1000 or $5000? Also, do they require anything besides forms and cash? Do I need to have a facility they can inspect? Etc...

Thanks again! :clap:
I THINK that $1000-$1500 would cover the import cost not the livestock. You would have to look at brokerage fees, shipping and handling, paperwork, airfair, ect... That all adds up. I agree you might want to talk with an importer and see what else it might be needed. The paper work also needs to be perfect. Any mistakes, even ones made by the other person could lead to a confiscated shippment and a large fine.

John
 

Cowin8579

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What other people have done in the past is have a regular shipment, and then you add 1-2 species hidden in there that are endangered and not allowed to be shipped etc. That's how other people messed up in the past.

If they are on the shipment list, it should go through.
 

Nomadinexile

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Wouldn't the best option be to contact the appropriate authorities by phone or email and simply ask about the areas that are unclear to you (regarding costs, facilities etc.)? I would guess that this is the best way to get as accurate information as possible:)
Yes and No. In my experience, the authorities are apt to lie or even be confused about the laws that change or are often complicated. You don't have to look far to find examples of this.

Step one: Find out the rules.

Step two: Confirm with authorities IN WRITING!

:D
 

Nomadinexile

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i know those questions were directed towards azjohn but i thought id chime in. from what i understand (in the past) the originaly permit for import/export of wildlife, i believe called a CITIES permit, is something like $300. im pretty sure within the lasy year, they extended the renewal time to 3 years. aside from the permit, there are fees like brokerage, shipping, customs certificates, etc etc. as far as i know, you do not have to quarentine or inspect invertebrates. i could be wrong but i think the quarentine protocol mainly adapts to mammals and birds. im sure they treat the import of scorpions the same as venomous snakes. its not hard to do, you just have to have the money to do it....hence the reasons most import shipments are loaded with tons of creatures. lowers the cost of the innitial import once you hit the resell point. gotta maximize profit margins or importing isnt worth it. unless your rich. i also do not think they charge per animal. im pretty sure the fees are rolled into one for EACH airbill number issued. you may have once single crate to an airbill or multiple. i.e: crate 1of4....2of4...and so on. those can and should all be put on the same airway bill number. it may be in your best intrest to see if you can contact some of the major importers and see if maybe they can give you some advice or currect info. if i were you, i would see if some of the reptile dealers in florida would let you pick their brain for a bit. more venomous and non-venomous snakes are imported than inverts. or on a more steady basis should i say. ill see if some of my old buds in the herpetological world can shed some info on this.
Thanks File! I was only asking John because I knew he's looked into it. I'll take any information from anyone that knows anything right now! The more the merrier on both accounts! Hope no offense was taken, I was just unaware of your knowledge on the subject.

Brokerage fees on my side? I'm the broker right? So this would be for the broker across the pond right?

Any knowledge of customs certificates? I looked it up in the past, and if I remembered right, there is no customs fee if it's a non commercial transaction. So if I organized a trade and took payment from traders only in the form of donations to my collection, I think I wouldn't have to worry about that. But I could be wrong.

If I'm doing a sale, any idea how they charge for that? By specimen? By order? By value?

Oh yeah, this isn't a commercial venture for me either. If people throw me a couple slings here and there, I would be happy, as long as they cover costs. My main interest in this is as a part of my hobby. If it doesn't take too much time and effort, it's not a big deal.

My main reason for doing this is the stupid lack of certain species on our continents. I have Euro dealers contacting me about getting our domestics, and of course they have dozens and dozens of species we don't have. And that's just scorpions.

My secondary reason is to encourage captive breeding. One, by providing a larger market for slings, and two, because it is what I will focus on when I can. I also feel like the disconnect between the U.S. and international hobbyists is magnified by the different species we have/keep. I think if our selections more closely match, we will come closer as a community partly by sharing breeding information. It's a win-win.

So money is not a consideration here. I can get the license up front, the whoever is trading/buying/selling can pick up the rest. I'd just be the bridge. I might get a couple of headaches doing it, but I would have a lot of fun too. I would benefit the hobby and make some new friends too. That would be great.

:)
 

Nomadinexile

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uhmmmm....what did you say?

Nomad, you are a brave man.Imean to get into exporting.I don't do it anymore since the prices were going through the roof.
I can give you the names of some of my exporters from laos, Cambodia,Vietnam,Thailand,Chinaand a few other countries if you'd like.
Bravery and stupidity is a fine line. {D

I'm not interested in doing it commercially though. I'm doing this for fun, to benefit the hobby, and encourage captive breeding. I'm not going to do it a lot, and I wouldn't be spending money. The people whom I help get new species would.

Those names will be much appreciated once I get started. I'm sure there will be people here interested in asian species. I'm hoping to mostly deal with hobbyists, but I am sure there will be species there not in hobbyists hands, or even if they are, they may not have enough to sell/trade and make the cost worth it. So I will take you up on that soon enough if everything works out well. Thank you! :D
 

Nomadinexile

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I THINK that $1000-$1500 would cover the import cost not the livestock. You would have to look at brokerage fees, shipping and handling, paperwork, airfair, ect... That all adds up. I agree you might want to talk with an importer and see what else it might be needed. The paper work also needs to be perfect. Any mistakes, even ones made by the other person could lead to a confiscated shippment and a large fine.

John
Thanks John. I hadn't thought of Paperwork errors. I did think about screw-ups though. I contacted an African dealer to talk shop. After dozens of emails, I came to the conclusion that he didn't know an Emperor from a flat rock from a Androctonus! :wall:

All I could think of, was that he would send me a box full of CITES species! :eek:
 

Nomadinexile

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What other people have done in the past is have a regular shipment, and then you add 1-2 species hidden in there that are endangered and not allowed to be shipped etc. That's how other people messed up in the past.

If they are on the shipment list, it should go through.
There's a permit on the FWS website for endangered species. It's not that much. I'm considering getting it just so I don't have an extra charge if there is a screw-up. There aren't many of those species though anyway. And I have 0 interest in dealing with them. Well, there is one species that would be cool,... But there already are a thousand cool species we don't have. So I really don't need to bother. I'll let one of the bigger guys get those if they can.

;)

I appreciate the warning though. But I'm not going to do anything like that. I guess I just have to deal with reputable people and hope they don't screw up!
 

Nomadinexile

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Btw, anyone know if Panama is open? I would go collect C. bicolor myself and hand deliver them to the exporter if it is. :drool:
 

BAM1082

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Your dealing with multiple countries... I would contact a lawyer or para-legal... and also incorporate.

Atleast incorporation will keep your personal assets safe if your ever sued.
Ei. A dumb custom inspector opens a box containing LQ's. Gets stung on the pinky finger and dies.

Just a thought, if your going to be getting into business....
Then u can also sell us all some shares :) :D

Bam
 

Nomadinexile

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Thanks Bam! Those are some interesting ideas. I will consider incorporation.
Although, if a postal inspector opens a legal, marked venonmous shipment, I don't think they would have standing to sue. Although, they would probably still try. :wall:

If I am going to make a business out of it... Enough to sell shares and all, I would have to save a ton of money and it would be a full time job. I still have to work right now. I have another hobby as well. And I also have to be able to get out hiking, and I still go dancing a lot.

Maybe though. I could have a couple of large investors someday, or I could just come up big. :)
 
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