If I wanted one (just 1!) baboon...

[efmp1987]

I had over 25 kinds over the years, and at my peak 150 specimens. Off the top of my head:

Africa
- Common Egyptian (N. haje)
- Banded Egyptian (N haje annulifera)
- Calico Egyptian (8')
- Sinai Egyptian (N. haje - pale heads)
- Cape (N. nivea)
- Togo Blackneck Spitter (N. nigricollis nigricollis - black with a salmon colored throat)
- Banded Spitter (N. nigricollis nigricincta)
- Black Spitter (N. n. woodi)
- Red Spitter (N. pallida)
- Mozambique Spitter (N. mosambica)
- Forest (N. melanoleuca)
- South African Forest

Asia/Indonesia
- Indian (N. naja)
- Ceylonese (N. naja polyocellata)
- Black Pakistan (N. n. karachiensis)
- Monocled (N. n. kaouthia)
- Albino monocled
- Aberrant Monocled (random markings)
- Chinese (N. n. atra)
- Black & White Spitter (N. siamensis)
- Isam Spitter
- Black Spitter (N. sumatrana)
- Suphan (N. suphanensis)
- Java Spitter

That's a lot. ROFL. But Naja nivea is definitely pretty, reminds me of an OBT

 

[basin79]

@Poec54 i apologise for my choice of words.

It's just you yourself used an absolutely stupid analogy. You only have to read the news to know no matter how careful you are you can be hit with a car.

Whilst a tarantula is in no way a machine that can be predicted they're an animal of instinct. And in that can be somewhat predictable.

I've never been charged at by any of my tarantulas. But of course that doesn't mean I never will. But in anticipating that they might covers all the bases to not getting bit.

 

[Poec54]

Getting bitten by an Asian elapid sure is far worse than getting bitten by an Old World tarantula. How does it feel to have neurotoxic venom flow through your veins? I havent encountered anyone to have experienced this.

And to think cobras are also far more predictable due to the unmistakable threat display, unless they are prone to biting without bothering to spread their ribs.

Cobras in the classic defensive stance are fairly predictable, but are prone to fast moves too. Most captive bites are feeding responses; they're worked up and pump a lot of venom in. Defensive bites can be warnings and some are dry.

So, this was 30 years ago. I was feeding cobras on a July Friday night after work, brought the food in (chicks) and then separated a pair of monocles that were sharing the same cage. That was my mistake. In it's excited food frenzy, one bit me on the knuckle of the first finger of my right hand. The snake realized it made a mistake and pulled back immediately. I closed the cage and stood there saying 'That didn't just happen.' But there was a drop of my blood on my finger. I changed clothes, turned on some night lights, and drove myself to a hospital (stick shift too!). I went to the emergency desk and said: "Here's my insurance card. I was just bitten by a cobra and need serum." They looked at me strangely.

I was put in a room and hooked up to an IV. Serum had to be flown in from Orlando, actually from a guy I knew who did venom extraction. It was a 3 hour wait from bite to serum. My muscles felt weaker, threw up once, and towards the end was having trouble focusing my eyes and swallowing. I was given 11 vials of Thailand monocled cobra serum because of the delay. The serum was administered thru the IV (after testing me for an allergic reaction), and in seconds I could feel it going thru my body. It was a rush sensation, like something clean and fresh flowing inside me; just wonderful, felt so much better in minutes.

Problem was tissue damage to my finger (otherwise I would have been out the next day). I was in for 2 weeks as they fought infection. By then the pain was intense. So much so that I could hardly feel the bleach water they used to clean the open wound (tendons exposed). They put me on a morphine drip, but it didn't even dull the pain so I quickly stopped using it, not wanting the side effects. I was released but had a stent in my wrist for antibiotics that I had to self- administer every 8 hours. That went on for over a week, without a lot of progress. Then a doctor at USF Tampa who was Asian and had treated cobra bites there prescribed a different blend of antibiotics and that quickly cleared it up. As soon as I was out I ordered 24 vials of polyvalent serum from SAIMR (South African Institute of Medical Research), that was supposed to be held at Customs, but it was delivered directly to me by the Post Office. So in years 2 thru 8 I had serum of my own, in my frig. That gave me some peace of mind. With most snake bites, tissue damage and infections are usually the worst part. To reduce/prevent tissue damage, serum is needed within 30 to 60 minutes. The neurotoxic effects are usually much slower, with most fatalities in 12-24 hours. However, with the hottest snakes, especially black mambas (the world's most dangerous snake), people have died much faster. Although some Australians have somewhat stronger venoms, they're not as fast or aggressive as black mambas.

One final thing: around that time I was in a reptile club that met monthly in Orlando. One night there was a speaker that had been bitten by a tiger snake, he was messed up from it, in a wheel chair with coke bottle glasses. His wife did most of the presentation. When you're around venomous snake people, you usually see some either with crippled fingers or missing fingers. Telltale sign.

 

[Poec54]

@Poec54 i apologise for my choice of words.

It's just you yourself used an absolutely stupid analogy. You only have to read the news to know no matter how careful you are you can be hit with a car.

Whilst a tarantula is in no way a machine that can be predicted they're an animal of instinct. And in that can be somewhat predictable.

I've never been charged at by any of my tarantulas. But of course that doesn't mean I never will. But in anticipating that they might covers all the bases to not getting bit.

I'd never had tarantulas run inside my clothes before (out of fear, not defensiveness), until it happened. Happened 3 times, all during cage transfers, all were Poecilotheria. Two panicked & ran out of the cages onto me, and inside my shirt (safe dark place). The 3rd ran down my legs and then up again, inside my shorts (safer darker place - we rarely wear long pants in Florida unless we have to). Somehow I wasn't bitten, but it would have been in places I never expected a bite. I've learned that anything can happen when working with wild animals. I don't know if my bite-free run will continue indefinitely, but it's proof that I've had some control of the situations I've been in.

Apology accepted. Here's the thing, we're all passionate about our hobby, usually that's good, but sometimes that can manifest itself in ways that are inappropriate. Regardless of what someone else says, or any analogy they use, stay calm, it's only words. We all love spiders, we're here to learn and teach. There's no reason lose tempers or call names. Regardless of our individual views, we're all in this together. God knows we have an uphill with our hobby and the public; we don't need to be fighting amongst ourselves. Other the years I've been here, there's been some horrible examples of fights & tantrums, and I don't want this site to ever get anywhere close to that again. Those were the dark ages, let's keep moving towards enlightenment.

 

[basin79]

I'd never had tarantulas run inside my clothes before (out of fear, not defensiveness), until it happened. Happened 3 times, all during cage transfers, all were Poecilotheria. Two panicked & ran out of the cages onto me, and inside my shirt (safe dark place). The 3rd ran down my legs and then up again, inside my shorts (safer darker place - we rarely wear long pants in Florida unless we have to). Somehow I wasn't bitten, but it would have been in places I never expected a bite. I've learned that anything can happen when working with wild animals. I don't know if my bite-free run will continue indefinitely, but it's proof that I've had some control of the situations I've been in.

Apology accepted. Here's the thing, we're all passionate about our hobby, usually that's good, but sometimes that can manifest itself in ways that are inappropriate. Regardless of what someone else says, or any analogy they use, stay calm, it's only words. We all love spiders, we're here to learn and teach. There's no reason lose tempers or call names. Regardless of our individual views, we're all in this together. God knows we have an uphill with our hobby and the public; we don't need to be fighting amongst ourselves. Other the years I've been here, there's been some horrible examples of fights & tantrums, and I don't want this site to ever get anywhere close to that again. Those were the dark ages, let's keep moving towards enlightenment.

Thank you.

How do you do enclosure transfers? For it to happen 3 times is worrying.

 

[Poec54]

Works most of the time! I set cages on a bar stool in the middle of the room to work with them. Keep in mind I've had thousands of tarantulas over the decades, & have done many cage transfers, breedings, packing, and unpacking, not to mention all the maintenance. The percentage of issues is miniscule.

 

[efmp1987]

Cobras in the classic defensive stance are fairly predictable, but are prone to fast moves too. Most captive bites are feeding responses; they're worked up and pump a lot of venom in. Defensive bites can be warnings and some are dry.

So, this was 30 years ago. I was feeding cobras on a July Friday night after work, brought the food in (chicks) and then separated a pair of monocles that were sharing the same cage. That was my mistake. In it's excited food frenzy, one bit me on the knuckle of the first finger of my right hand. The snake realized it made a mistake and pulled back immediately. I closed the cage and stood there saying 'That didn't just happen.' But there was a drop of my blood on my finger. I changed clothes, turned on some night lights, and drove myself to a hospital (stick shift too!). I went to the emergency desk and said: "Here's my insurance card. I was just bitten by a cobra and need serum." They looked at me strangely.

I was put in a room and hooked up to an IV. Serum had to be flown in from Orlando, actually from a guy I knew who did venom extraction. It was a 3 hour wait from bite to serum. My muscles felt weaker, threw up once, and towards the end was having trouble focusing my eyes and swallowing. I was given 11 vials of Thailand monocled cobra serum because of the delay. The serum was administered thru the IV (after testing me for an allergic reaction), and in seconds I could feel it going thru my body. It was a rush sensation, like something clean and fresh flowing inside me; just wonderful, felt so much better in minutes.

Problem was tissue damage to my finger (otherwise I would have been out the next day). I was in for 2 weeks as they fought infection. By then the pain was intense. So much so that I could hardly feel the bleach water they used to clean the open wound (tendons exposed). They put me on a morphine drip, but it didn't even dull the pain so I quickly stopped using it, not wanting the side effects. I was released but had a stent in my wrist for antibiotics that I had to self- administer every 8 hours. That went on for over a week, without a lot of progress. Then a doctor at USF Tampa who was Asian and had treated cobra bites there prescribed a different blend of antibiotics and that quickly cleared it up. As soon as I was out I ordered 24 vials of polyvalent serum from SAIMR (South African Institute of Medical Research), that was supposed to be held at Customs, but it was delivered directly to me by the Post Office. So in years 2 thru 8 I had serum of my own, in my frig. That gave me some peace of mind. With most snake bites, tissue damage and infections are usually the worst part. To reduce/prevent tissue damage, serum is needed within 30 to 60 minutes. The neurotoxic effects are usually much slower, with most fatalities in 12-24 hours. However, with the hottest snakes, especially black mambas (the world's most dangerous snake), people have died much faster. Although some Australians have somewhat stronger venoms, they're not as fast or aggressive as black mambas.

One final thing: around that time I was in a reptile club that met monthly in Orlando. One night there was a speaker that had been bitten by a tiger snake, he was messed up from it, in a wheel chair with coke bottle glasses. His wife did most of the presentation. When you're around venomous snake people, you usually see some either with crippled fingers or missing fingers. Telltale sign.

Ouch! That sounded like a terrible experience. What happened to your snakes? I admire them from a distance and would not want to keep something like a monocoled cobra let alone a taipan or a mamba. Black mambas definitely are the most dangerous snake as you have pointed, and while they are not the most venomous (but still extremely toxic, mind you), their venom has a very low molecular weight and spreads REALLY fast. I was bitten by a pit viper once when I was younger, but it was dry. LOL. Lucky me!

 

[Poec54]

Ouch! That sounded like a terrible experience. What happened to your snakes? I admire them from a distance and would not want to keep something like a monocoled cobra let alone a taipan or a mamba. Black mambas definitely are the most dangerous snake as you have pointed, and while they are not the most venomous (but still extremely toxic, mind you), their venom has a very low molecular weight and spreads REALLY fast. I was bitten by a pit viper once when I was younger, but it was dry. LOL. Lucky me!

After 9 years I needed a break and sold them. You really have to be alert & focused working with them, and that took up a good part of my weekends. I had a friend who was much better than I was with these animals. He bred black mambas, king cobras, tree cobras, water cobras, rhino vipers, etc. Amazing talent. But that was almost his entire life.

Another snake collector I know had a professional room, set up like a reptile house in a zoo, with big walk-in cages. He had transitioned from cobras, puff adders, etc to Australians. Had some tiger snakes and one time when I was there, he unpacked an adult taipan in a walk-in cage, just poured it out of the bag while he was in there. There's no way to have done that with a black mamba or forest cobra in such a confined space, they're too fast and high strung.

 

[Ungoliant]

When you're around venomous snake people, you usually see some either with crippled fingers or missing fingers. Telltale sign.

I admire the beauty of venomous snakes, but I don't think I'd ever want to be part of a hobby where the "telltale sign" is people "with crippled fingers or missing fingers." A little too intense for my taste.

 

[Poec54]

I admire the beauty of venomous snakes, but I don't think I'd ever want to be part of a hobby where the "telltale sign" is people "with crippled fingers or missing fingers." A little too intense for my taste.

Doesn't have to mean bites though. I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction (sold to labs and universities), and had hundreds of snakes in their labs. One guy, George van Horn, was bitten 9 times that I know of, twice from a 14 foot male king cobra he had. With all his bites, he developed a strong sensitivity to venom, and would go into shock and pass out from a bite. The first king cobra bite was bad, the second ended his career. His right arm swelled so bad the doctors cut it open the entire length to relieve the pressure, but that messed up some of his muscles and tendons. He couldn't do extraction any more and closed his facility. When I used to watch him extract, he'd regularly have his hands within striking range and it made me nervous just watching him.

The other venom extractor, Glen Womble, was more careful and was never bit during his career. Bites aren't inevitable when you own venomous snakes, even a lot of then. Some people learn to be extremely careful right out of the starting gate, and others need a lesson or two before that's fully appreciated.

Tying that in to spiders: you can do something 100 times, 1,000 times, without incident. And one day, for whatever reason, the animal acts completely different and you're caught off guard. You can get away with a lot of things with animals, but eventually it will catch up to you. With all I've experienced, I've learned to limit a spider's options as much as possible. It may be very unlikely for it to do something (run, jump, bite) but if you're not prepared for it, that spider can make a fool out of you. The words: "Well, it never did that before" don't count for much. What an animal 'usually does', and what it's capable of are two different things. That's why I urge people to acquire tarantulas species in stages, to work their way up. Jumping into OW's immediately often doesn't end well. And having an OW sling for a few months does not mean you have the experience to work with adults. It's not a race. Take your time, enjoy what you have, get to learn tarantula husbandry with more forgiving species, and then decide if you want to take the next step. That gives the best chance for things going well for both you and the spider, along with the people you live with.

 

[efmp1987]

Doesn't have to mean bites though. I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction (sold to labs and universities), and had hundreds of snakes in their labs. One guy, George van Horn, was bitten 9 times that I know of, twice from a 14 foot male king cobra he had. With all his bites, he developed a strong sensitivity to venom, and would go into shock and pass out from a bite. The first king cobra bite was bad, the second ended his career. His right arm swelled so bad the doctors cut it open the entire length to relieve the pressure, but that messed up some of his muscles and tendons. He couldn't do extraction any more and closed his facility. When I used to watch him extract, he'd regularly have his hands within striking range and it made me nervous just watching him.

The other venom extractor, Glen Womble, was more careful and was never bit during his career. Bites aren't inevitable when you own venomous snakes, even a lot of then. Some people learn to be extremely careful right out of the starting gate, and others need a lesson or two before that's fully appreciated.

Tying that in to spiders: you can do something 100 times, 1,000 times, without incident. And one day, for whatever reason, the animal acts completely different and you're caught off guard. You can get away with a lot of things with animals, but eventually it will catch up to you. With all I've experienced, I've learned to limit a spider's options as much as possible. It may be very unlikely for it to do something (run, jump, bite) but if you're not prepared for it, that spider can make a fool out of you. The words: "Well, it never did that before" don't count for much. What an animal 'usually does', and what it's capable of are two different things. That's why I urge people to acquire tarantulas species in stages, to work their way up. Jumping into OW's immediately often doesn't end well. And having an OW sling for a few months does not mean you have the experience to work with adults. It's not a race. Take your time, enjoy what you have, get to learn tarantula husbandry with more forgiving species, and then decide if you want to take the next step. That gives the best chance for things going well for both you and the spider, along with the people you live with.

I also believe that the longer you deal with, or keep something, an air of subtle complacence takes root ("I know this snake like the back of my hand") and the, BAM! Hence the majority of people who get bitten by either T's, or snakes, or get mauled by their big exotic felines are the long-time keepers themselves.

Edit: Some or a few anyway, not all.