Agreed. These pictures show no real difference in spermatheca shape, but there is an undeniable curvature in the G. actaeon picture. I don't think it is enough to separate it from the G. iheringi though. That figures, but it is insightful to see and as you say, maybe the shape will change as they get larger. I hope there are one or more taxonomists out there working on a complete generic revision. This is a tough genus.
To throw another wrench, I've been translating some of the paragraphs and chart rows from the Schiapelli and Gerschman papers, and one notes "Escóp. metat. I" as being half for both G. actaeon and G. iheringi. The earlier paper uses that as a defining character, but it doesn't seem to be reliable based on more recent publications.Agreed. These pictures show no real difference in spermatheca shape, but there is an undeniable curvature in the G. actaeon picture. I don't think it is enough to separate it from the G. iheringi though. That figures, but it is insightful to see and as you say, maybe the shape will change as they get larger. I hope there are one or more taxonomists out there working on a complete generic revision. This is a tough genus.
The abdominal setae on iheringi is longer and has a very noticeable 'wave' to it.
That may be the common name for G. acteon, but G. iheringi is IMO much 'woollier', at least with regards to the abdomen. The setae are also more fire truck-red in G. iheringi, while juvi G. acteon are paler and more leaning towards orange.
I think I'll just do this with mine tbh, the spermathecae of mine don't seem to match either your actaeon or iheringi (yours have an inward curl whereas Sareena's are pretty much straight) and all the other methods seem to have too much variation to give an accurate ID, she's 4.5" now and should be due a moult soon (I think actaeon start to lose the red at around 4.5" - 5" if I remember correctly) so I'll update here if I remember.
Yeah but actaeon kinda look like a slender shaggy pulchra as adults, hence the common name. I suppose we could just change iheringi's to "Entre Rios Woolly Red Rump"
Thanks so much for those pics, and info.
Thanks! Good to know, she’s still young so we’ll see.
I can't say for sure what you have, in part because the pictures you have don't tell me how far along the molt is. I'd need to see a fresh molt to gauge the abdominal setae color. The actaeon, which I have, as slings and juvi, really look the same. Owners of iheringi do observe differences in shape of the abdominal setae. Personally I don't think my AFs is any less wavy than iheringi, but we are using subjective terms.
The lose it in 1 molt. One night your T is bright red, the next day it's rusty red. The rusty red will continue to lose color over the next few molts and plateau out.
The same between the species. Both females get to be quite large.
GorgeousI can't say for sure what you have, in part because the pictures you have don't tell me how far along the molt is. I'd need to see a fresh molt to gauge the abdominal setae color. The actaeon, which I have, as slings and juvi, really look the same. Owners of iheringi do observe differences in shape of the abdominal setae. Personally I don't think my AFs is any less wavy than iheringi, but we are using subjective terms.
The lose it in 1 molt. One night your T is bright red, the next day it's rusty red. The rusty red will continue to lose color over the next few molts and plateau out.
The same between the species. Both females get to be quite large.
That’s funny how some Actaeon will turn black like G. Pulchra@VanessaS hi.
The input I received about G. actaeon and hobby G. iheringi is this:
In pet trade, we have two different individuals of G. actaeon (I dont know worldwide, but at least in South America they have. One looks like hobby iheringi when slings/juvenile, "black with red butt", the region these guys were found is Rio Grande do Sul (Brazil). The other individual, is black, even when slings, these guys were found in Santa Catarina (Brazil). Unfortunately, I wasnt told specifically the cities they were found in both states but I can ask around, if you want to.
The individual you have, is from Rio Grande do Sul and, as you stated, the red color will fade within time. It can turn a dark red (almost a wine coloration) but there were also individuals that became fully black as adults.
What I've learned about these guys, though, is kinda sad, lol. To differentiate juveniles hobby iheringi from juveniles actaeon, visually speaking, there arent any accurate/reliable methods. I saw you made a comment about the different setae disposition and size but turns out, even in the same species you can have these variabilities, meaning if you examined a large group of actaeon, you'll noticed these differences between the individuals. When adults, however, hobby iheringi turns out to be way bigger than actaeon, specially in the size of the legs of legs I and II. Not only that, hobby iheringi red coloration doesnt fade away within time. So adults are more likely to be differentiate from actaeon. I know these arent valid taxonomical characters (maybe the size of the legs are) but those are what we have in pet trade now.
About spermathecae, we (as hobbysts) are used to differentiate species by looking at it, and I'm not saying this is wrong, as most of you guys, I do it all the time too. But from what I was told, the use of spermathecae (isolated) to differentiate some Grammostola species is not reliable too.
Thats the input I had about hobby iheringi and actaeon.
I saw you talked a lil bit about the "real ihering" and G. grossa. I'll make a comment about these later. And yes, as everything else in Grammostola genus, it is also a mess. Lol.
Please start a new thread for easy searching purposes.
Seeing as this has been necro'd and I forgot to update, last moult measured 5", still has the red, got a much better spermathecae pic.
OP = Original poster