I suck at this....

[Mark Newton]

I belive the pectines are used to detect other scorpions through whatever chemicals they produce, to inspect soil composition and to detect ground vibration.

Pretty much my understanding also. Not so sure about ground vibration, but possibly. Research has been published demonstrating how slit sensilla are used to detect ground vibrations. There's no doubt they use the pectines to study the substrate.

 

[Thaedion]

Was the male just juddering? Remember one of the functions of the pectines is to detect vibrations and movement, scorps judder to make they're presence known to other scorps.

I didn't watch the video, , I was refering just to the post. I belive the pectines are used to detect other scorpions through whatever chemicals they produce, to inspect soil composition and to detect ground vibration. I belive also this is summed up in Polis' book but I haven't read that in a while.

ED is very correct here, I just skimmed/skimming through 'the biology of scorpions' Pectin functions are for detecting ground vibrations and nature of the substrate; mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. Juddering is the males way of telling the female he's there.

(and as I was reading - the behaviour I noted above was actually a pre-mating behaviour, not 'ticked-off-id-ness')

Thaedion

 

[EAD063]

ED is very correct here, I just skimmed/skimming through 'the biology of scorpions' Pectin functions are for detecting ground vibrations and nature of the substrate; mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors. Juddering is the males way of telling the female he's there.

(and as I was reading - the behaviour I noted above was actually a pre-mating behaviour, not 'ticked-off-id-ness')

Thaedion

No no Mike, your note was correct my males hets did it to eachother initially when the second was introduced into the firsts container. If one wasn't a molt higher than the other I'd swear they were brothers, they got along for months before I seperated them.

 

[EAD063]

Pretty much my understanding also. Not so sure about ground vibration, but possibly. Research has been published demonstrating how slit sensilla are used to detect ground vibrations. There's no doubt they use the pectines to study the substrate.

Hey Mark, without a doubt the sensilla are used to detect ground vibration. But it would seem more useful to rely on the pectines for that and use the sensilla to detect predator or prey through the air, which is another function of the sensilla. What are your views onthat? Like I said, I haven't been able to look at Polis' book in a while, but I remember these topics occured in the first few chapters.

 

[Mark Newton]

Hey Mark, without a doubt the sensilla are used to detect ground vibration. But it would seem more useful to rely on the pectines for that and use the sensilla to detect predator or prey through the air, which is another function of the sensilla. What are your views onthat? Like I said, I haven't been able to look at Polis' book in a while, but I remember these topics occured in the first few chapters.

Cloudsley-Thompson (1955) ground vibrations eh....I dont have that paper, should read it. I know that slit sensilla are used in some scorpions (possibly all) to detect ground vibrations. I'm interested that pectines detect ground vibrations, I knew they had both mechano and chemo receptors and that pheromone detection was meant to be attributed to them. I wonder what sort of information about ground vibrations the scorpion would receive. Way to find out how much they are used would be to remove the pectines and note the difference in vibration detection.

I dont agree that pectines would be better suited to ground vibration. Very often they are nowhere near the ground and in this situation would leave the scorpion vulnerable to predators (as in the case of stilting). The feet and slit sensilla on the other hand are always in contact with the ground. Using slit sensilla it has been shown that scorpions can very accurately tell such factors as direction vibration is coming from, idea of size of source and how far away it is and how quickly it is approaching. This is due to the spatial differences between the position of the feet. Calculations based on differences between amplitutes of waves across the eight feet give a good map of the vibration. The pectines could not do this as they are too close together.

Spiders also use slit sensilla for this purpose. Spiders do not have pectines and so if pectines are used for vibration this is an evolutionary after thought (apomorphism) and probably nowhere near as useful as the slit sensilla, the plesiomorphic state.

 

[EAD063]

Those are great points Mark, which is why I asked for your opinion of course. Excellent point about spiders using the sensilla. I guess maybe they could use both? I belive the pectine has some sensilla on them also, or am I mistake? I don't know exactly about the ground vibrations, but I knew I read it in Polis' book, didn't get past the third chapter before I ran out of extensions from my university libraryl. That book is intense, lol. I do recall reading a study once, the pectines of a female USA native scorpion was covered in parafin wax. I Belive they said there wasn't too big of a difference between her and the others, she she was a bit clumsier and had a more difficult time catching prey but was overall just as healthy and normal as the others. Obivously that is a small bit and the expiriment was quite extensive. I just wish I knew where I found the article.

 

[Mark Newton]

I belive the pectine has some sensilla on them also, or am I mistake?

They have peg sensilla, which are truncated setae in the tens of thousands. Studies have shown they are responsible for detecting chemicals (chemoreceptive). I would have thought they would be used mechanically to detect shape and texture of the substrate rather than vibration, which is covered by slit sensilla. Clearly males use the pectines to locate a suitable substrate for adhesion of the spermatophore foot, this would be based on feel and shape, texture etc, not vibration.

Then of course we have trichobothria....thoughts of horrid taxonomy...yeeesh...

 

[EAD063]

They have peg sensilla, which are truncated setae in the tens of thousands. Studies have shown they are responsible for detecting chemicals (chemoreceptive). I would have thought they would be used mechanically to detect shape and texture of the substrate rather than vibration, which is covered by slit sensilla. Clearly males use the pectines to locate a suitable substrate for adhesion of the spermatophore foot, this would be based on feel and shape, texture etc, not vibration.

Then of course we have trichobothria....thoughts of horrid taxonomy...yeeesh...

LOL^

With your extensive knowledge, more questions arise than with a peon like me who reads it from a reliable source and doesn't question it, haha. Though I'd be intersted in finding out more about it too. I guess the pectines are just a bit mysterious, I bet a lot of other creatures could find use for a pair. lol

 

[Evil Juggalo]

So.. with all of this arguing.. All your tryin to say is that he's lookin for other scorps.. He can smell em but cant see em..

 

[Aillith]

That pretty much sums it up

 

[EAD063]

There was no argueing. Just discussion of scorpion anatomy, perhaps McGyver, you should do a little studying and you could participate more intellectually.

 

[Mark Newton]

There was no argueing. Just discussion of scorpion anatomy, perhaps McGyver, you should do a little studying and you could participate more intellectually.

I agree Ed....Arugment!! I dont argue, cant be bothered, give my point and its peoples choice to decide for themselves. Nothing like a good discussion though IMO....makes me think....:?

 

[TTstinger]

You are getting adult wild caught scorpions that you have no idea how old they are. I would venture to guess old age

I was thinking the same thing. try ordering some younger instars