I have a problem- now up to 5 Ts!

Garth Vader

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
436
Today I stopped by Petco (yes, petco) to buy some crickets for my Ts. I looked to see if they had any Ts, I haven't seen one in the store for ages. They had 4, so out of curiosity I asked to see them. You know where this is going, right? There was a B. vagans and 2 B. smithi (supposedly) and they were teeny tiny. There was also a larger and beautiful A. aviculara. It was love at first sight- really it was! I simply could not abide by the terrible set up they had for this darling. So yeah, I bought the T. I also gave several Petco employees lectures on tarantulas so I was totally that person. I think I need some real life T friends, or I just need to come on here more often :)

The sling is a bit under 1 inch and is currently in a small RUB on the side. I will most likely make a difference enclosure later because I have been excited about the idea of making an arboreal enclosure. I really like what I've seen people do with AMAC boxes and want to try that.

I've been reading about avics for a while on here and thinking about getting one for a while. I know mine is quite small and sensitive to husbandry mistakes. I made sure the RUB has a lot of small holes in it (on the sides and top) and there's a fake plant, a small water dish, and cork bark for webbing. The substrate is a tiny bit damp and if I see any fogging up in there then I know more holes are needed. Any other info I should keep in mind?

About 1 minute, no joke, after moving into the enclosure the T ate the cricket. The same cricket it had in the tarantula. Maybe it's a good sign? I dunno.

So yeah, I'm up to 5 now. I think I need to stop looking at Petco!
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
709
I simply could not abide by the terrible set up they had for this darling.
That's what they count on...the sympathy purchase. Petco could take better care of them, but instead, they make customers feel sorry for the Ts, to the point where they'll pull out their wallets and "rescue them" from the store. In reality, all it does is create demand for another animal that will wind up in the same shitty conditions. Sorry to rain on your purchase...it's nothing personal. I just think the way some pet stores keep animals in poor conditions to get a sale is vile.
 

Garth Vader

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
436
That's what they count on...the sympathy purchase. Petco could take better care of them, but instead, they make customers feel sorry for the Ts, to the point where they'll pull out their wallets and "rescue them" from the store. In reality, all it does is create demand for another animal that will wind up in the same shitty conditions. Sorry to rain on your purchase...it's nothing personal. I just think the way some pet stores keep animals in poor conditions to get a sale is vile.
I couldn't agree more, and it really isn't okay. I do not plan on continuing to do this and rather shocked at myself (kind of) that I made such an emotional purchase. I would NOT buy a dog or a cat from there because I disagree with so much of what they do, and the same should be for Ts. It was very clear to me that they don't even bother to understand how to take care of Ts and are more interested in other animals. I do not plan to look at their Ts anymore and usually the Petco where I buy my crickets doesn't even have any so it shouldn't be a problem.

It really is a lovely Avic though. AND i will do better about buying from reputable dealers who care. Just harder to do an impulse buy online :)
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
Staff member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
3,825
I've been reading about avics for a while on here and thinking about getting one for a while. I know mine is quite small and sensitive to husbandry mistakes. I made sure the RUB has a lot of small holes in it (on the sides and top) and there's a fake plant, a small water dish, and cork bark for webbing. The substrate is a tiny bit damp and if I see any fogging up in there then I know more holes are needed. Any other info I should keep in mind?
I'm assuming you've already seen this post, but if not, Avicularia Husbandry tips by @viper69.

Feel free to post a picture of your Avic setup for feedback. (Most of the "Help My Dying Avic" threads could have been prevented by doing so.)


That's what they count on...the sympathy purchase. Petco could take better care of them, but instead, they make customers feel sorry for the Ts, to the point where they'll pull out their wallets and "rescue them" from the store.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
 

Garth Vader

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
436
IMG_0807.JPG IMG_0808.JPG Thank you @Ungoliant! Yes I have read that post and it is quite helpful.

Here are a few pics of what I have so far. I threw this together with what I had and will put something better together soon.
 

Attachments

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
Staff member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
3,825
Here are a few pics of what I have so far. I threw this together with what I had and will put something better together soon.
That looks pretty good in terms of having adequate anchor points for webbing. (Avics will normally avoid the ground, so you don't really need plants down there -- but they love vines and leaves in the top half of the container.)

A wider water dish would make the Avic feel more stable while drinking.

Is the water dish blocking the entrance to the cork hide? If so, I would try to move one or the other. If you can raise the cork or get a taller one, even better. (They will often wait facing downwards on a cork when in hunting mode.)

I would add a few more air holes -- mainly for the front and back panel, which don't appear to have any. I might also poke a few holes along the top of each side (in the two rectangular panels below the top in your third picture) in case your Avic decides to build a hammock at the top.
 
Last edited:

Kayis

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Messages
37
Nice little enclosure there, definitely better than what i'd setup :). The only T in my collection that has any type of visual aspect of an enclosure would be my G. iheringi and even than it's pretty plain lol. Not even going to bother with the chain pet store thing.:banghead:
 

Garth Vader

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
436
Nice little enclosure there, definitely better than what i'd setup :). The only T in my collection that has any type of visual aspect of an enclosure would be my G. iheringi and even than it's pretty plain lol. Not even going to bother with the chain pet store thing.:banghead:
Thank you. And I know, I know. The Petco thing is bad bad bad. I go there to buy crickets since I only have a few Ts and I think I'm going to buy some in bulk so I don't have to do that anymore. I do know better and I truly got really emotional with this one and did an impulse buy! Ugh.

@Ungoliant I'll add in more air holes and get a wider dish. It's a very small enclosure, even for this little one. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to ensure the cross ventilation and places to climb and web. Thank you for your feedback.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
Today I stopped by Petco (yes, petco) to buy some crickets for my Ts. I looked to see if they had any Ts, I haven't seen one in the store for ages. They had 4, so out of curiosity I asked to see them. You know where this is going, right? There was a B. vagans and 2 B. smithi (supposedly) and they were teeny tiny. There was also a larger and beautiful A. aviculara. It was love at first sight- really it was! I simply could not abide by the terrible set up they had for this darling. So yeah, I bought the T. I also gave several Petco employees lectures on tarantulas so I was totally that person. I think I need some real life T friends, or I just need to come on here more often :)

The sling is a bit under 1 inch and is currently in a small RUB on the side. I will most likely make a difference enclosure later because I have been excited about the idea of making an arboreal enclosure. I really like what I've seen people do with AMAC boxes and want to try that.

I've been reading about avics for a while on here and thinking about getting one for a while. I know mine is quite small and sensitive to husbandry mistakes. I made sure the RUB has a lot of small holes in it (on the sides and top) and there's a fake plant, a small water dish, and cork bark for webbing. The substrate is a tiny bit damp and if I see any fogging up in there then I know more holes are needed. Any other info I should keep in mind?

About 1 minute, no joke, after moving into the enclosure the T ate the cricket. The same cricket it had in the tarantula. Maybe it's a good sign? I dunno.

So yeah, I'm up to 5 now. I think I need to stop looking at Petco!
View attachment 235621 View attachment 235622 Thank you @Ungoliant! Yes I have read that post and it is quite helpful.

Here are a few pics of what I have so far. I threw this together with what I had and will put something better together soon.
The enclosure looks good. I always add a lot of vents for Avics. Likely more than is needed but having too many is less of a problem then not enough.

I really don't see the problem of buying a T from a pet store if you are there and they have what you want. Congratulations on your new T I hope it grows well for you. :)
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
That's what they count on...the sympathy purchase. Petco could take better care of them, but instead, they make customers feel sorry for the Ts, to the point where they'll pull out their wallets and "rescue them" from the store. In reality, all it does is create demand for another animal that will wind up in the same shitty conditions. Sorry to rain on your purchase...it's nothing personal. I just think the way some pet stores keep animals in poor conditions to get a sale is vile.
Oh my god... next they will be maiming the Ts as people walk into the store to get even more sympathy buys out of us. Sorry, I couldn't help it. :)

You realize they are kept that way for the same reason that the pet gold fish are keep poor conditions right? It has nothing to do with selling and more to do with them being such a low amount on the revenue stream. They honestly make more money in a day off cat and dog food, pet supplies and grooming (and those god awful pet suits) then they do off of pet sales in weeks. With a new pet, some equipment sales are made but that's not even a big part of the revenue. The only reason they have those pets at all is to make their store a one stop shop which drives out local shops and keeps other chains from coming in.

In the end, you not buying from them is unlikely to affect them at all. If everyone on this board stopped buying from them as spread out as we are it's unlikely to affect them at all. However, I will say there are a number of store that I don't buy from because I dislike them. They are not hindered in the slightest by my personal boycott.

The pet store's massive bottom line will be largely unaffected regardless of if you buy the T or not. So if you see one and want it... pick it up. If you hate the place and don't want to give them your money that's ok too. Either way, I doubt they will change their business model based on what you do. Likely, they wont even notice.
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
709
The pet store's massive bottom line will be largely unaffected regardless of if you buy the T or not.
That's not a reason for me to throw my hands up and do nothing.

Also, not all pet stores that treat animals badly have massive bottom lines. Some of the worst care I've ever seen is in a 1-person shop in my town.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
That's not a reason for me to throw my hands up and do nothing.
Nope it isn't. Like I said I often wont buy from a store I don't care for. However, saying someone who buys a T from said store is encouraging them to do worse isn't really a valid statement.

If the buying or not doesn't matter either way.... and you wanted said T and would have bought it elsewhere... what good does it do to let it die by not buying it because of the store?

Also, not all pet stores that treat animals badly have massive bottom lines. Some of the worst care I've ever seen is in a 1-person shop in my town.
This is true though the OP was referring to Petco. You are more likely to make a change in small local shops. That or put them out of business.
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
709
If the buying or not doesn't matter either way.... and you wanted said T and would have bought it elsewhere... what good does it do to let it die by not buying it because of the store?
If a store abuses and neglects animals to the point of their death, that's not on me in any way, unless I enable that bad behavior by paying them to keep doing it over and over.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
If a store abuses and neglects animals to the point of their death, that's not on me in any way, unless I enable that bad behavior by paying them to keep doing it over and over.
If you buy an animal or not doesn't make a difference in how they do business then how are you enabling them? Enabling someone requires you to have the ability to affect the outcome to start with.

It's like saying "I didn't let my drug addict son stay here because I didn't want to enable him to do drugs". Meanwhile, he is down the street, in the ally, high on crack. The end result is he is high on crack regardless of your choice. So, that wasn't an enabling choice because it wouldn't have affected the outcome either way. Inversely, giving him money when he is broke is enabling him because he couldn't have got the crack without your help. Finally, it is perfectly valid to not let him stay because you don't like what he does.

Anyway, I don't have a dog in this pet store hunt so do whatever makes you feel better.
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
709
If you buy an animal or not doesn't make a difference in how they do business then how are you enabling them? Enabling someone requires you to have the ability to affect the outcome to start with.
Making zero difference and making a small difference are not the same. If a neglectful store makes $10,000 a year on tarantula sales with my purchase, and $9,900 a year on tarantula sales without my purchase, I am still lowering the store's tarantula sales slightly by not shopping there.

The idea is not that one person makes a massive difference, anyway. It's that a lot of people's small differences, when added up, can be significant and end up making a positive change.
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
Staff member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
3,825
And I know, I know. The Petco thing is bad bad bad. I go there to buy crickets since I only have a few Ts and I think I'm going to buy some in bulk so I don't have to do that anymore. I do know better and I truly got really emotional with this one and did an impulse buy! Ugh.
Don't beat yourself up. Most people here have probably, at one time or another, "rescued" a pet store tarantula that was not being kept properly. This topic has been beaten to death multiple times over the years, with people arguing for and against the hobby's ability to effect change at the big box pet stores.

I bought my second tarantula (a juvenile Avicularia avicularia) from PetSmart. I love her, and I don't regret buying her at all, but she was my first and only pet store purchase. Specialty stores and hobbyists have a better selection, and it is likely that their animals are kept in better conditions. Plus I later learned of a local dealer that has a great selection, so I don't even have to pay for shipping.


I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to ensure the cross ventilation and places to climb and web.
There are a few ways to add plants. One is to attach them to your cork bark. Another is to use a few of your ventilation holes as attachment points. (Insert the stem into the hole and secure it.) Just be careful what adhesives you are using, as some may be toxic. (Many will give off toxic fumes as they cure.) I use aquarium-safe sealant and give it at least several days to cure (until it is not giving off any odor).

In my first Avic setup, I made the mistake of gluing the cork bark vertically along the glass wall. The tarantula liked it, but it made cleaning and feeding a pain. It's probably better to lean it at an angle.
 

BobBarley

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,480
Wait... since when is 5 a problem??? If 5 t's is a problem, I have a catastrophe, and many others on this forum have a nuclear fallout.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
Making zero difference and making a small difference are not the same. If a neglectful store makes $10,000 a year on tarantula sales with my purchase, and $9,900 a year on tarantula sales without my purchase, I am still lowering the store's tarantula sales slightly by not shopping there.
I guess...

Think about it like this. Given your example, say hypothetically, that the T sales are 2% of the store's revenue (it's likely a lot less than 1% for most stores but this makes the numbers easier). Then for 10,000 T revenue there would be for a store revenue of 500,000 or 499,900 without you buying the 100 dollars in Ts. That's with just one store. A chain of them makes it even less significant. In the end will they notice?

I just think people over estimate the impact they have when they say I'm going to refuse to buy from this store and they'll have to change. Which is why Walmart is still rolling right along after a lot of outrage/boycotts (much bigger than any other boycotts I've ever seen elsewhere) were aimed at it. Or when they tell others buying from a store enables the store when it's really not a factor either way.

Like I said, I don't shop at some stores because I don't like them. I also realize that is just to make me feel better.
 

CyclingSam

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
220
On a side note. If any of your T.s from Petco don't make it 30 days, you can return them for a full refund. I know this because I purchased an A. avic. sling from them that didn't look like it was doing so hot (poor ventilation for the little guy). It passed about 20 days after taking it home. They refunded me in full. I guess if they are torturing T.s to get sympathy sales like others here have suggested, then they need to look at their business model if they want to make any money.
 
Top