Hysterocrotes hercules? Gigas? A hybrid??

[Rumless]

The debate seems to be whether there really is any Hysterocrotes hercules in the trade. Without being terribly aware or concerned about the issue, I recently obtained a spider that is supposedly a H. hercules. The person who gave it to me claims to have gotten it from Germany.

I didn't actually pay anything for the lil gal, so the person wouldn't have any reason to lie to me but since plenty of people seem to be confused on the matter, it is possible that they didn't know for certain either.

Regardless, I'm posting here because I'm new and wondering if anyone is interested in trying to solve this mystery? Is there anything I can do to determine what sort of spider I actually have?

 

[Rumless]

I found this in the article initially describing the taxon (Pocock, 1899)

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

The debate seems to be whether there really is any Hysterocrotes hercules in the trade. Without being terribly aware or concerned about the issue, I recently obtained a spider that is supposedly a H. hercules. The person who gave it to me claims to have gotten it from Germany.

I didn't actually pay anything for the lil gal, so the person wouldn't have any reason to lie to me but since plenty of people seem to be confused on the matter, it is possible that they didn't know for certain either.

Regardless, I'm posting here because I'm new and wondering if anyone is interested in trying to solve this mystery? Is there anything I can do to determine what sort of spider I actually have?

Using Pocock's key to Hysterocrates species, the spider you pictured is not H. hercules. Pocock's key clearly states that H. hercules does not have a thickened 4th leg (your's does) and that the carapace is wider than long (your's is longer than wide).

EDIT: I found a post here that has a picture of Pocock's holotype of Hysterocrates hercules. You can see the carapace and leg proportions and use that to match to any pet trade material labeled as such. Click

 

[Nightstalker47]

The debate seems to be whether there really is any Hysterocrotes hercules in the trade. Without being terribly aware or concerned about the issue, I recently obtained a spider that is supposedly a H. hercules. The person who gave it to me claims to have gotten it from Germany.

I didn't actually pay anything for the lil gal, so the person wouldn't have any reason to lie to me but since plenty of people seem to be confused on the matter, it is possible that they didn't know for certain either.

Regardless, I'm posting here because I'm new and wondering if anyone is interested in trying to solve this mystery? Is there anything I can do to determine what sort of spider I actually have?

Probably H.gigas, crassipes maybe.

Could also be any other type of hysterocrates hybrid within the genus, it is very muddied.

Vendors label these hercules to get them sold, the true hercules has never been in the hobby.

The locale(Niger delta) of H.hercules is seldom explored. Far too dangerous for any hobbyists to linger and attempt to collect specimens out there. Look at it this way, no one is risking their life to get these spiders in the hobby, there has actually only ever been one type specimen found. And it is still preserved at the British Museum of Natural History.

 

[Rumless]

Using Pocock's key to Hysterocrates species, the spider you pictured is not H. hercules. Pocock's key clearly states that H. hercules does not have a thickened 4th leg (your's does) and that the carapace is wider than long (your's is longer than wide).

EDIT: I found a post here that has a picture of Pocock's holotype of Hysterocrates hercules. You can see the carapace and leg proportions and use that to match to any pet trade material labeled as such. Click

Yeah! After I posted the thread I found that journal and answered my own question. But I left it up for the sake of dialogue. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Rumless]

Probably H.gigas, crassipes maybe.

Could also be any other type of hysterocrates hybrid within the genus, it is very muddied.

Vendors label these hercules to get them sold, the true hercules has never been in the hobby.

The locale(Niger delta) of H.hercules is seldom explored. Far too dangerous for any hobbyists to linger and attempt to collect specimens out there. Look at it this way, no one is risking their life to get these spiders in the hobby, there has actually only ever been one type specimen found. And it is still preserved at the British Museum of Natural History.

All of that has been mentioned in other things I read, but until I found Pocock's article I wasn't able to find anyone who actually listed any distinguishing characteristics of H. hercules. Even mentions of the preserved specimen fail to mention its characteristics (from ehat i have found) so apart from the assertion that one has never "been in the hobby", I was unable to find any solid info regarding that.


Since the other Hysterocrotes species look similar and live in the same region it is really equally possible to collect H. gigas (which obviously has occurred enough that they ARE readily available in the hobby) . Additionally, it seems plausible that someone collecting and selling wild spiders would collect, (intentionally or not), which could've introduced them into the trade at some point, especially if they are able to hybridize and have viable offspring.

People collecting and selling exotics of frequently not "hobbyists" so may not even know what they are collecting.

I think the excerpt from Pocock's taxonomy should be more widely publicized, since it seems to provide a better criteria to identify Hysterocrotes than anything else.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Rumless]

EDIT: I found a post here that has a picture of Pocock's holotype of Hysterocrates hercules. You can see the carapace and leg proportions and use that to match to any pet trade material labeled as such. Click

Thanks for that link. That's interesting!

I'm not trying to buy or sell H. hercules. My interest in the matter was purely to contribute (if possible) to what seems to be a great deal of disagreement regarding the classification of different specimens. Since it looks like my gal is a gigas (which is what I had assumed, despite the previous owner's claim), I can't settle the debate ("can't prove a negative") but I'll pass on that link and the excerpt from Pococks taxonomy if I come across the issue in the future.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Paul Osullivan]

The debate seems to be whether there really is any Hysterocrotes hercules in the trade. Without being terribly aware or concerned about the issue, I recently obtained a spider that is supposedly a H. hercules. The person who gave it to me claims to have gotten it from Germany.

I didn't actually pay anything for the lil gal, so the person wouldn't have any reason to lie to me but since plenty of people seem to be confused on the matter, it is possible that they didn't know for certain either.

Regardless, I'm posting here because I'm new and wondering if anyone is interested in trying to solve this mystery? Is there anything I can do to determine what sort of spider I actually have?

Hey rumless, I have posted recently "Goliath baboon" in the tarantula I.d section, you will find everything on there and the links from the comments very interesting indeed..