Hysterocrates Questions

[Terrena Laxamentum]

I'm making feeble attempt at IDing some Hysterocrates species. What are the main differences between gigas, laticeps, crassipes, and hurcules? I'd also like to know how to differentiate Hysterocrates and Phoneyusa.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I'm making feeble attempt at IDing some Hysterocrates species. What are the main differences between gigas, laticeps, crassipes, and hurcules? I'd also like to know how to differentiate Hysterocrates and Phoneyusa.

Distinguishing most of the Hysterocrates species, including the ones mentioned, is impossible because there is no modern identification key for the species in the genus. Most species described have not been looked at in about 100 years, and the descriptions are poor. The ones that were re-examined by Andrew Smith in 1990 in his book "Baboon Spiders: Tarantulas of Africa and the Middle East" are just descriptions with no proper diagnosis of the species. The same is true with the species of the genus Phoneyusa.

Fortunately, making a genus level identification should be easy since the genera Hysterocrates and Phoneyusa have distinct differences in the female spermathecae and male palpal bulb.

The male palpal bulb of Phoneyusa species have a distinct conductor seen in prolateral view; Hysterocrates species have a hook on the tegulum also seen in prolateral view.
The female spermathecae of Phoneyusa species are short, wide, and rounded with no lobes; Hysterocrates have two tall receptacles with at least two lobes per receptacle (the number of lobes is highly variable).

See the following publications for further details and/ or illustrations of the genus level characters.

Smith, A. M. (1990c). Baboon spiders: Tarantulas of Africa and the Middle East. Fitzgerald Publishing, London, pp. 1-142.

https://wsc.nmbe.ch/reference/6959

Gallon, R. C. (2010a). On some southern African Harpactirinae, with notes on the eumenophorines Pelinobius muticus Karsch, 1885 and Monocentropella Strand, 1907 (Araneae, Theraphosidae). Bulletin of the British Arachnological Society 15(2): 29-48.

https://wsc.nmbe.ch/reference/11389

Gallon, R. C. & Wendt, I. (2015). On the taxonomic placement of four African Phoneyusa species (Araneae, Theraphosidae, Eumenophorinae). Arachnology 16(8): 298-304.

https://wsc.nmbe.ch/reference/13037

 

[Scolopeon]

I can give you a rough visual guideline to the general traits.

Hysterocrates gigas:
Thickened rugby tibia leg IV until adulthood, after that it disappears, all legs become pretty much uniform. Can reach up to 8.5” legspan.

Hysterocrates crassipes:
Rugby shaped Tibia, entirely thickened leg IV that stays well into adulthood.
Generally lighter colour. Generally smaller than other Hysterocrates here. 6-7” is the norm.

Hysterocrates laticeps:
Rounded carapace, entirely thin leg IV
7-8.5” legspan.
I think Hysterocrates sp. Nigeria ended up either being this species or a new species.

Hysterocrates hercules:
Rounded oval carapace, all legs of a similar thickness, leg 4 patella is swollen looking. Abdomen seems more tubular than other Hysterocrates.
It’s size is a little over or under 8”

Hysterocrates scepticus:
Like hercules but a thinner and longer carapace in proportion to the spider, apparently can reach 9” - Not been seen since they were imported from Glades herps I’m the 90’s as Jurassic Giant Tarantulas.

Hysterocrates apolosticus:
Club footed leg IV thinner and leggier than most other Hysterocrates. Can reach 17-18cm.

Hysterocrates elephantiensis:
Extremely bulbous tibia on leg I, looks specialised for digging.
Like no other species, doesn’t get as large as the others here.

Phoneyusa:
Generally shorter legged with a very round carapace (rounder than hercules), closely related to Hysterocrates and some species have been moved to and fro from the genus to the other in new revisions.

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

Good to know that I'm just on a trend with animals with absolutely nightmarish taxonomy. If I were to post pics, would y'all be able to give best guesses?

@Scolopeon

What do you think? If you need different angles of each, let me know.

 

[Scolopeon]

@Scolopeon

What do you think? If you need different angles of each, let me know.

Either Juvenile crassipes, or gigas - hard to tell, if it keeps the thickened leg IV once it's above 6" most likely crassipes.. i'm doing a video on this on my Youtube channel, will link here when done.

Also I got the name wrong for one above it's actually hysterocrates elephantiasis. Sometimes tricky going from mind alone.

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

Either Juvenile crassipes, or gigas - hard to tell, if it keeps the thickened leg IV once it's above 6" most likely crassipes.. i'm doing a video on this on my Youtube channel, will link here when done.

Also I got the name wrong for one above it's actually hysterocrates elephantiasis. Sometimes tricky going from mind alone.

Each picture is a different specimen, these guys came out of Nigeria and Cameroon. Unfortunately, I don't know which ones are from where.

 

[Scolopeon]

Each picture is a different specimen, these guys came out of Nigeria and Cameroon. Unfortunately, I don't know which ones are from where.

I don't think any of these look to have come from Nigeria - Would have to check if gigas range extends up that far, I'd stick with what I said on the two species listed above being the closest match.

Here is that video I said I would do:

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

I don't think any of these look to have come from Nigeria - Would have to check if gigas range extends up that far, I'd stick with what I said on the two species listed above being the closest match.

Here is that video I said I would do:

I can tell you for sure that a portion of these are Nigerian, they came in as "hercules", while the Cameroon ones as "gigas". You think gigas/crassipes even for #2, the one with uniformly thin legs? I'm gonna check your vid out when I get the chance.

 

[Scolopeon]

I can tell you for sure that a portion of these are Nigerian, they came in as "hercules", while the Cameroon ones as "gigas". You think gigas/crassipes even for #2, the one with uniformly thin legs? I'm gonna check your vid out when I get the chance.

I didn’t see that until you pointed it out because it’s all curled up.

Hercules not, because anything imported from Nigeria is laticeps. Because it’s curled up I couldn’t see the carapace which is also an important defining feature.

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

I didn’t see that until you pointed it out because it’s all curled up.

Hercules not, because anything imported from Nigeria is laticeps. Because it’s curled up I couldn’t see the carapace which is also an important defining feature.

I can get you a better pic of it tomorrow. Checked out your video, very informative and useful!

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

@Scolopeon

Is this better?

 

[Scolopeon]

@Scolopeon

Is this better?

Can see swellings on the tibia

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

I noticed that too, but it is substantially less than the "gigas", even compared to those that are smaller than specimen #2. The Cameroon ones look like specimen #4 or #3.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Here is that video I said I would do:

After watching this video it appears you are basically trusting that the pictures you use for the comparisons are correctly identified (with the exception of H. hercules and H. elephantiensis). Is that an accurate assessment?

 

[Scolopeon]

After watching this video it appears you are basically trusting that the pictures you use for the comparisons are correctly identified (with the exception of H. hercules and H. elephantiensis). Is that an accurate assessment?

That was my assessment based on keeping many specimens of those species minus the last two of which I looked at the research papers.
I also have a lot of literature on the genus as a whole, Andrew Smiths book, Richard Gallons research papers, and other documents.
It’s a basic way to identify and the information is pretty accurate, we know the Hercules picture was real.

The laticeps was my own specimen also going by the name sp. Nigeria (Adult pictured) - WC came from Benin.
You won’t get a better source of information than that, bar when Mr Gallon finally comes out with the new research.

I noticed that too, but it is substantially less than the "gigas", even compared to those that are smaller than specimen #2. The Cameroon ones look like specimen #4 or #3.

Given that they aren’t pet trade, you could have gigas and crassipes there. Going to have to wait until adulthood to see if they lose that.

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

So should I refer them to Hysterocrates Sp. "gigas/crassipes" and Hysterocrates Sp. "Nigeria"?

 

[Scolopeon]

So should I refer them to Hysterocrates Sp. "gigas/crassipes" and Hysterocrates Sp. "Nigeria"?

If they are WC and you know the locality, sp. Cameroon, sp. Nigeria.

Although, you said hercules, which is what I had imported from Germany and it ended up being a gigas.


Sp. Nigeria imported have rake thin leg IV.

 

[Terrena Laxamentum]

If they are WC and you know the locality, sp. Cameroon, sp. Nigeria.

Although, you said hercules, which is what I had imported from Germany and it ended up being a gigas.


Sp. Nigeria imported have rake thin leg IV.

Yeah the Nigerian ones were supposed to be Hercules, which I know they aren't. Yeah they're all WC.