Hysterocrates hercules

[CedrikG]

Hi,

Looks a lot more like a Hysterocrates sp. ... in my opinion he lev IV are to large to be a Hysterocrates hercules, looks more like the Hysterocrates ''gigas'' found everywhere in the hobby.

 

[SSW.com]

Hey Cedrik , thanks for the reply. I have seen both of these spiders and they look the same in real life. I really believe that Austins camera is deceiving us...not just in color. I have had many C. crawshayi and in person they are easy to distinguish from Hysterocrates. Even Austin has said that it doesnt look like his other C. crawshayi that he posted pics of. Of course as i have said...i am human and prone to mistakes. Hopefully Austin can get us some better pictures and we can come to a conclusion that we can agree on.

Joel Miller

 

[CedrikG]

Hi,

yes, I also am a human (at least I think so) and can be mistaking, can't wait to see the new pictures.

 

[David_F]

Austin,

I can't see the pics of the "H. hercules" here at work for some reason but if you can get a pic of the labium and sternum of the spider it will quickly tell us whether it's a C. crawshayi or.....well, something different. C. crawshayi will have a longer than wide labium while Hysterocrates spp. will have wider than long.

While you're getting those pics, if you still have the exuvium from the last molt, try to get pics of the spermathecae, outside (rear-facing) surface of the chelicerae, the inner (forward-facing) surface of the maxillae, and coxa and trochanter of leg I.

If this thing hasn't hissed at all, and it's really a Hysterocrates sp. or C. crawshayi, you're probably not annoying it enough.

As far as it being a "real" H. "hercules"....there's absolutely no way to tell (at least that I'm aware of). Try a search on the species and see what you come up with.

Oh yeah, for pics without flash, put some masking tape or something over the flash and just light the spider up with a desk lamp. You should be able to focus fine but you really need strong light.

That should be the last edit.

No Hysterocrates sp. or even Phoneyusa sp. share these large tarsus and metatarsue ...

Have you seen the pics of the "Hysterocrates sp." that Garrick had/has posted on his site? Huge metatarsus and tarsus IV

 

[CedrikG]

Hi,

no i've not, I was'nt on forum for the last months

 

[David_F]

Hi,

no i've not, I was'nt on forum for the last months

Ah, I see.

Anywho, these are old pics. Don't think he's got the spider any more but it was an interesting looking thing. It is Specimen 2 on this page.

Sorry to derail your thread, Austin.

 

[Austin S.]

Not a prob David!

I took some pictures outside without a flash today. Yeah, I figured it out haha. Here is what I got.

 

[Tim St.]

Ah, I see.

Anywho, these are old pics. Don't think he's got the spider any more but it was an interesting looking thing. It is Specimen 2 on this page.

Sorry to derail your thread, Austin.

Austins T looks like Specimen 2, look at the long hairs on the back legs

 

[David_F]

Austins T looks like Specimen 2, look at the long hairs on the back legs

I can't looks at the pics right now. The computer at work won't load pics from hosting sites. Gotta wait until I get home.

"Looks like" doesn't really solve much anyway. Gotta look at the features I mentioned in a previous post to even begin to get an idea of sub-family and genus. However, if it looks like that spider I'm extremely envious.

 

[Brian S]

I personally label all of them as Hystocrates sp as there is not much way of knowing what they are unless you know exactly where they were originally collected from. There is a pretty good chance that the H gigas that are sold here are not even the true H gigas.

 

[ShadowBlade]

There is a pretty good chance that the H gigas that are sold here are not even the true H gigas.

Ain't that the truth!

My only comment I'll make on the specimen now in question, is what makes you think it even could be H. hercules? This species has never been in the hobby. Jacobi has never even seen a live one?

-Sean

 

[CedrikG]

Richard said ;

Hysterocrates gigas
This was the next species imported from mainland Africa, Cameroon. Males and young mature females have a thickened tibia on leg IV. Ironically this species is probably not the real gigas, but is "pet trade gigas". However really large females loose the thickened tibia IV (and were often sold as H. hercules). Now you understand why your "real hercules" spiderlings have got thickened tibia IV!

This species has never been in the hobby. Jacobi has never even seen a live one?

How can you say that there never been any Hysterocrates hercules in the hobby ? Especially when no Hysterocrates sp. are really idable due to the mess in this genus, and the miss of information for Id'ing them ...

Ah, I see.

Anywho, these are old pics. Don't think he's got the spider any more but it was an interesting looking thing. It is Specimen 2 on this page.

This is interesting David, very hard to tell the identification of this specimen on picture, unfrotauntyl theres'nt much information on this site

 

[ShadowBlade]

How can you say that there never been any Hysterocrates hercules in the hobby ? Especially when no Hysterocrates sp. are really idable due to the mess in this genus, and the miss of information for Id'ing them ...

Click on the underline.

I meant it in the form of- no correct ID'd hercules have been in the hobby, so anyone selling it as such is :?.

 

[CedrikG]

Some people sell them but they're not real ... anyway ... how is it possible to proof that a Hysterocrates hercules is a real one

This said, the hobby goes deeper then just on forums, I would say that a TON of expert dont go on forums, so we just dont know what been/is in the hobby.

 

[ShadowBlade]

Some people sell them but they're not real ... anyway ... how is it possible to proof that a Hysterocrates hercules is a real one

This said, the hobby goes deeper then just on forums, I would say that a TON of expert dont go on forums, so we just dont know what been/is in the hobby.

That is exactly why I'm asking him. What made him sell it as such? I'm just curious.

-Sean

 

[David Burns]

This is my largest, the other is never out. Now to be honest with you, this does look like crawshayi and this SOB is going to get a hell of a talking.

In this picture the back legs don't have the long setae that it has in later pics. The tarsi on the back legs are larger then later pics too. That is the pic I based my identification on.

 

[P. Novak]

In this picture the back legs don't have the long setae that it has in later pics. The tarsi on the back legs are larger then later pics too. That is the pic I based my identification on.

In that picture, that is the actual C.crawshayi. He was just comparing it to the new T he picked up.

 

[David Burns]

In that picture, that is the actual C.crawshayi. He was just comparing it to the new T he picked up.

Notice the wording on top of the pic.

Maybe I am misunderstanding it. Sorry if I caused any trouble.

 

[SSW.com]

That is exactly why I'm asking him. What made him sell it as such? I'm just curious.

-Sean

Sean, we listed it as H. hercules ...because that is what we purchased it as from Europe. Now that may not have been the right thing to do...but in our defence we did not sell it as that...I informed Austin that I was about absolutely certain that it was not H. hercules. Anyone that inquired about it was told that. Maybe we should have listed it as just a Hystocrates sp. but then we wouldnt have had this very informative discussion. So we were not really trying to pass it off as a Hercules.

 

[David_F]

Finally got a chance to look at the pics and it's definitely not a C. crawshayi (Was that even still up for debate?). As has been mentioned, the hairs on legs IV are too long, the tibiae of legs IV are incrassate, and the tarsus and metatarsus of leg IV appears to be "normal" (it's just a bit difficult to tell due to the angles of the pics). I'd say it's a Hysterocrates sp......at least what we know as Hysterocrates sp. in the hobby. Procurved fovea, incrassate tibiae IV, long leg IV, etc. No way to tell if it's H. hercules or H. gigas or H. crassipes or ........well, you get the point.

So.....how 'bout some pics of the metatarsal scopula of leg IV? And when she molts spermathecae pics would be cool too.

Nice spider, Austin.