how to sex small T's

Panic

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
61
is there a way of sexing T's below 1.5 inch by not using a microscope? is there another way? of course its too small to see the spermathecae or maybe it hasnt developd yet. but is there a mark where it proves that a spermathecae is not yet developed but it leaves a clue that it is a female?
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,330
ventral sexing can work at a small size, but vsexing is even harder than molt sexing to get right
 

speedreader

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
330
Of course there is!
If you possess sufficient funds, I am sure some lab would do DNA analysis for you.
 

P. Novak

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
6,234
is there a way of sexing T's below 1.5 inch by not using a microscope? is there another way? of course its too small to see the spermathecae or maybe it hasnt developd yet. but is there a mark where it proves that a spermathecae is not yet developed but it leaves a clue that it is a female?
I'm pretty sure the only way would be able to sex them via microscope, a strong one too. Even that doesn't have to work if the spermathecae aren't developed. Slings at that size just simply have no way to be sexed just on looks, esp. with the naked eye.
 

tacoma0680

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
309
No you can not sex them that small there spermathecae are not showing up yet. If you find a way you will be a rich person good luck
 

speedreader

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
330
No you can not sex them that small there spermathecae are not showing up yet. If you find a way you will be a rich person good luck
Whoa there, what do you mean can't?!
Last I checked DNA testing for X/Y chromosomes is pretty straightforward. And a lab doing that test could get some $. But it's not that it would make them reach; more of, it would make those who pay for it poor. On the other hand, having access to this tech and some extremely expensive spiders can be lucrative.:cool:
 

Varden

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
704
Whoa there, what do you mean can't?!
Last I checked DNA testing for X/Y chromosomes is pretty straightforward. And a lab doing that test could get some $. But it's not that it would make them reach; more of, it would make those who pay for it poor. On the other hand, having access to this tech and some extremely expensive spiders can be lucrative.:cool:
Don't be ridiculous. You're going to recommend poking holes in your Ts, particularly your expensive Ts, at a size of 1.5", just to sex it? If you're being serious, how do you recommend stopping the bleeding afterward on such a small invert? And if you're being facetious, don't! Giving that kind of advice to someone who doesn't know any better can lead to a dead T!
 

Nerri1029

Chief Cook n Bottlewasher
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
1,727
I'm pretty sure the only way would be able to sex them via microscope, a strong one too. Even that doesn't have to work if the spermathecae aren't developed. Slings at that size just simply have no way to be sexed just on looks, esp. with the naked eye.
I would have to agree on this statement.
I'm sure there might be exceptions, some kinds of T's show lots more sexual dimorphism than others, but even then that is mostly as adults.

I'll say this as my 2 cents:

"The best way to sex a T is with a microscope and an exuvium of a decently sized T"
Those people with alot of exp in sexing from the underside of a T might be able to make a decent guestimate, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone to put $100 on their results when sexing a 1" - 1.5" spider.

for me when I sex with my microscope I have been very accurate so far, even on spiders down to 1"
However there are alot more "inconclusives" at that size.
 

chris 71

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
192
i think i read somwhere that sexing the molt is only possible after the 6th instar i think if i remember right
 

chris 71

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
192
ok i found it this is mentioned in the tarantula keeper's guide on page 196 it dosent say its not possible before 6 molts just that the spider has to be old enough and gone through 6 molts or more
 

ShadowBlade

Planeswalker
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
2,597
It depends on the species for what age you can distinguish spermathecae.

-Sean
 

speedreader

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
330
Varden,

I am pretty sure you don't have to poke holes in a T to get a sample. Since I am not an arachnologist, I wouldn't go into details :).

And seriously, what kind of idiot would poke a hole in their spider just to sex it? If they did that after reading my post, they probably deserve it. :}
 

speedreader

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
330
Tescos, you are sure about what? that you need holes or the other way around?
 

Tescos

Banned
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
680
read what I quoted. you wrote it after all. All I am saying is where you are pretty sure about something you don't have to do I am saying I am dam sure about something you don't have to do.:D
Any clearer? No? Ah well I tried, and failed yet again it seems. Lucky I don't get all down and sorrowful about such things as I am sure I would be long dead by now!
all the best
Chris:)
 

billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
It is very possible to see spermathecae on many types of T's at around an inch.
I am limited in experience to what I own but have found that in general terrestrials are easier than arboreals and (obviously) species that mature at a smaller size are easier than the opposite. For example, as far as typical sized T's brachy's are fairly easy at an inch but on the other hand poec's can be tough at 4 inches. I would bet that a C. elegans can be done at a half inch.
A simple 10x magnifier will work in many cases though a binocular microscope helps greatly due to the depth perception but magnification still does not need to be that high, 10-20X is fine. I often use my camera in macro mode and that can be all that is needed for spermathecae as well as ventral sexing. Ventral sexing can be tough on 'slings for the same reason as finding spermathece, it's just not developed enough to differentiate. The hardest thing is when it's male you don't always know whether you are just missing something or the something is actually missing...

This is a B. emilia at around an inch, pic was taken with just a $200 camera, standard macro. It can also easily be seen with a 10x eye loupe.



Bill
 

tacomadiver

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
75
Actually, the DNA part does bring up a good thought though. Parrot chicks can be sexed if you get their egg shells packaged correctly soon enough, in other words no blood from the chick. I wonder if enough DNA would be present on the molt to send off and get sexed. The cost (if enough people were to do it) wouldn't be too bad since sexing a chick from an egg is only around $30. Probably not, but it is at least an interesting thought.
 

speedreader

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
330
I just read up on molting and my book says that the molt includes skin cells, gut cells, etc... should be plenty for DNA.
 
Top