How many would venture to make a project of keeping and raising genus Atrax?

[atraxrobustus]

Interesting. This video gives me more the impression of an OW, really.

 

[The Snark]

his is an interesting take, but everything I've seen has said isolated islands usually have less aggressive, less competitive species.

That's an interesting take. But Aus isn't an isolated island. It's a vast continent with only the climate as a natural boundary. Ignoring the Great Sandy. And the available list of reptiles include and exclude a number of species than have been able to navigate from the south Pacific.
Heck. You really need to take a month and check it out. The Kakadu, Arnhemland. The east coast. The place is mind blowing. Completely different from anything any other continent offers. And it is ancient. You can feel the age in your bones.
As for dangerous animals, it's a huge load of paradoxes. Assorted fluffies rubbing shoulders with some of the most lethal critters on the planet.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Here's a vid from the Australian reptile park, they produce most of the raw Atrax venom used for antivenin. You can see that when he tries removing the spider from the enclosure it strikes the tongs several times, and when he milks it he says he just needs to suck the venom off the fangs because they drop it when readying to bite, it also makes no move to bolt.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Interesting. This video gives me more the impression of an OW, really.

This one looks less aggressive than the one milked. I feel like if it were an H. mac or a similar OW it would've teleported up his arm lol

 

[darkness975]

That comes down to the fight or flight response, most old worlds pick flight when disturbed at first, either running or retreating to a burrow. However given the fact that A. robustus is slow they need a different way to defend themselves, this leads to their extremely grouchy attitude when threatened. When confronted they almost never give a dry bite and will often bite repeatedly injecting rather large amounts of venom for a spider. An OW or Phoneutria might seem more aggressive/defensive due to their speed but they don't drip venom from their fangs just waiting to pump a threat full of venom

I don't know if this is true or not but I read somewhere that they have much less control over the amount that they pump in so it's almost like smashing the head off of a faucet in the water just spewing forward uncontrollably.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

I don't know if this is true or not but I read somewhere that they have much less control over the amount that they pump in so it's almost like smashing the head off of a faucet in the water just spewing forward uncontrollably.

I've never heard of that, but it might be true seeing as it's not hard to find images of them threat posing with beads of venom already dripping off the fangs. I don't see why a spider would waste something as valuable as venom when it has t even bitten anything yet

 

[atraxrobustus]

I've never heard of that, but it might be true seeing as it's not hard to find images of them threat posing with beads of venom already dripping off the fangs. I don't see why a spider would waste something as valuable as venom when it has t even bitten anything yet

Of course A. robustus has some incredibly large fangs that are tough enough to go through a fingernail. The fangs being this large and strong (presumably following that the internal gage of the fang is also relatively large) Perhaps, It wouldn't strike me as unusual to see beads of venom that aren't seen in other species.

 

[pannaking22]

I actually sourced that out of the Australian media report cited as source on the Wikipedia article concerning Atrax robustus , citing an unprecedented survival of a 10 year-old boy whom had received 12 vials of antivenin with respect to a rather severe envenomation, from glancing over things. From most of the articles you'll find on A. robustus, it appears that encountering them is rare outside a male wondering out of it's own habitat, and that where people do encounter a wild A. robustus, bites are the rule rather than the exception, even with people having some experience handling arachnids, as from what I've been able to source the species is said to out do even the most aggressive old-world members of Family Theraphosidae, to the order of accounts of A. robustus actually giving chase rather unprovoked thereby making the most aggressive old-world Theraposidae seem docile in comparison.

It's Wikipedia, so grain of salt of course, but still good info here! I'll have to spend some more time poking around to learn more. Since my friend isn't a spider person, I wonder if he was getting Atrax mixed up with Latrodectus hasselti?

This. Safety and security measures should be easier than with Phoneutria to my limited experience with keeping Hexathelids. A bite though, i'd take much more serious than any P-bite.

Wonder, why is that particular interest in Atrax? Why not in Hadronyche, Missulena etc. ?

Makes me think of keeping that particular genus for all the wrong reasons.

Missulena! I completely forgot about that genus! That would be a fun one to keep. I wish more was known about Hadronyche though. It seems to be a mysterious genus, though I vaguely remember reading somewhere that their venom may be on par with Atrax venom. Vaguely doesn't confirm anything though.

 

[atraxrobustus]

It's Wikipedia, so grain of salt of course, but still good info here! I'll have to spend some more time poking around to learn more. Since my friend isn't a spider person, I wonder if he was getting Atrax mixed up with Latrodectus hasselti?



Missulena! I completely forgot about that genus! That would be a fun one to keep. I wish more was known about Hadronyche though. It seems to be a mysterious genus, though I vaguely remember reading somewhere that their venom may be on par with Atrax venom. Vaguely doesn't confirm anything though.

It's not just Wikipedia- I'm referring to the article cite from a secondary news source cited, which I find credible in this particular case.
Latrodectus species tend to be timid in compassion to docile tarantulas, such as aphonopelma and brachypelma- making Atrax species look off the chain.

 

[pannaking22]

Even better then! I must have missed that article.

Agreed, Latros are very timid. Never seen any aggression or defensiveness in mine. Any real disturbance and they scoot away to hide as quickly as possible.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Latros only ever bite if you press down on them or if you stick your hand into a female's web while she has eggs, they never really try and defend themselves by biting unless it's a last resort

 

[RTTB]

I understand the fascination with deadly venom and the bad ass factor. Keeping an A robustus or any Phoneutria are just not for me. I have kept Sicarius in the past and that was a tense experience.

 

[atraxrobustus]

I understand the fascination with deadly venom and the bad ass factor. Keeping an A robustus or any Phoneutria are just not for me. I have kept Sicarius in the past and that was a tense experience.

Yes, keeping the dangerous species is NOT for everyone, for sure. The thing is that there's fear of the spider, there's respect for what the spider can do, and then there's disrespect for what the spider can do. By fear, I don't mean arachnophobia per se, I mean the fear of dealing with an animal that can kill you. This kind of fear ends up in a bite, before its over, because of the fact that it makes one too tense to work safely. However, disrespect for what the species can do will also end up in a bite, because these are the idiots that think Atrax is to the likes of an old world Tarantula, or worse, an Aphonopelma. in the terms of what the consequences of the bite are- it never sinks into these people that this spider CAN kill them. Respect for the species is taking precautions with how we do things (i.e. never handling, etc.) BUT on the same token, it is NOT the kind of fear where we only deal with the spider behind bullet proof glass either. Therefore, we should be using what we know about the particular species to our advantage. ( for example, the fact that we know A. robustus can't climb glass) It flows from that, we know where good as long as we don't stick our mitts ANYWHERE near it (to do so is just asking to die, really.) , and as long as we keep it in a glass container of some sort or another, to where it can't escape. Other than that, we're good, so long as we never even THINK about handling.

That said, overall, I would say that Phoneutria and Sicarius are much more challenging species, because of the fact that Phonteuria is both much faster then Atrax and a perhaps a bit more aggressive than Atrax, And Sicarius is also relatively fast making it a challenging genus. Hence, anyone that can safely deal with Sicarius, should have no problem with Atrax, as Atrax is much more easily worked with because of the greater limitations of physical ability, and the fact that Atrax is slightly less dangerous in terms of venom because of the fact that there actually IS an antivenin for Atrax, while there is none for Sicarius.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Yes, keeping the dangerous species is NOT for everyone, for sure. The thing is that there's fear of the spider, there's respect for what the spider can do, and then there's disrespect for what the spider can do. By fear, I don't mean arachnophobia per se, I mean the fear of dealing with an animal that can kill you. This kind of fear ends up in a bite, before its over, because of the fact that it makes one too tense to work safely. However, disrespect for what the species can do will also end up in a bite, because these are the idiots that think Atrax is to the likes of an old world Tarantula, or worse, an Aphonopelma. in the terms of what the consequences of the bite are- it never sinks into these people that this spider CAN kill them. Respect for the species is taking precautions with how we do things (i.e. never handling, etc.) BUT on the same token, it is NOT the kind of fear where we only deal with the spider behind bullet proof glass either. Therefore, we should be using what we know about the particular species to our advantage. ( for example, the fact that we know A. robustus can't climb glass) It flows from that, we know where good as long as we don't stick our mitts ANYWHERE near it (to do so is just asking to die, really.) , and as long as we keep it in a glass container of some sort or another, to where it can't escape. Other than that, we're good, so long as we never even THINK about handling.

That said, overall, I would say that Phoneutria and Sicarius are much more challenging species, because of the fact that Phonteuria is both much faster then Atrax and a perhaps a bit more aggressive than Atrax, And Sicarius is also relatively fast making it a challenging genus. Hence, anyone that can safely deal with Sicarius, should have no problem with Atrax, as Atrax is much more easily worked with because of the greater limitations of physical ability, and the fact that Atrax is slightly less dangerous in terms of venom because of the fact that there actually IS an antivenin for Atrax, while there is none for Sicarius.

Sicarius is almost entirely uninterested in biting any large animal, to the point where you could probably poke one and not be bitten. If you were to be bitten however it would be very serious indeed.

 

[atraxrobustus]

Sicarius is almost entirely uninterested in biting any large animal, to the point where you could probably poke one and not be bitten. If you were to be bitten however it would be very serious indeed.

While SIcraius might not be particularly confrontational in comparison to Atrax, Sicarius is still a much more challenging species in my opinion because of the fact that Sicarius are known to be able to move quickly and sometimes unpredictably- and if you don't know exactly where the spider is at any given time, or it escapes, you have a major problem on your hands. Atrax has a tendency to want to "grapple" when confronted, whereas with Scicarius, while not being as confrontational, they're still a bit faster. Sicarius is also more challenging in that they are particularly large in comparison to Atrax- which makes them more difficult for the keeper to move about without being forced to handle in some way or another.

 

[schmiggle]

I would be much more willing to keep Sicarius than I would Atrax. Sicarius has no recorded human fatalities, and I'm pretty sure the reason is that they're just so darned timid. Definitely a spider that deserves lots of respect so it doesn't bite you, but also one that's very hard to convince to bite.
Both species are unlikely to escape, so in that regard I think they're the same (can't climb glass or plastic unless it has debris on it).

 

[atraxrobustus]

I would be much more willing to keep Sicarius than I would Atrax. Sicarius has no recorded human fatalities, and I'm pretty sure the reason is that they're just so darned timid. Definitely a spider that deserves lots of respect so it doesn't bite you, but also one that's very hard to convince to bite.
Both species are unlikely to escape, so in that regard I think they're the same (can't climb glass or plastic unless it has debris on it).

That's because of the fact that Sicarius has no confirmed human bite cases, and only two suspected cases in the literature, one of which resulted in an amputation and the other of which resulted in death due to coagulapathy. Therefore, we presume the effects of Sicarius venom on humans based on animal studies and based upon two unconfirmed identifications. Further, there is no antivenin for Sicarius. Essentially, what all this means, is that we don't know for sure the extent of the damage that Sicarius can do to humans, but from all indications it isn't good situation, and there's no antivenin available for mitigation of the effects. Hence Sicarius is the bigger threat in terms of dealing with the effects of a bite. However, Atrax is a good case of how it isn't always an accurate analysis to judge the effects of venom on lower order mammals to the effects on humans- as Atrax generally only presents extreme toxicity to primates, having little effect on other mammals.

In contrast, A. robustus has had a handful of confirmed bite cases that resulted in fatality and most of these occurred before antivenin was even available for the particular species There have been no documented deaths from Atrax since antivenin became available. Hence, even if you get bit, you'd rather get bit by an Atrax than a Sicarius, because of the fact that we actually know HOW to effectively deal with Atrax bites, while we know very little, if anything, about how to clinically manage Sicarius bites.

I'm not sure about Sicarius not being able to climb glass, as I can't find much written material about them, but I would presume from their appearance that they're more closely related to the old-world tarantulas than Atrax is, as they seem to resemble the Goliath bird eater, in some ways. While Sicarius is timid, that has to be taken with a grain of salt given the fact that Sicarius is much faster when attacking than Atrax is. Therefore, the question really is whether or not to expect Sicarius to have the ability to teleport if it really wants to.

 

[RTTB]

Any good literature to recommend on medically significant venomous spiders?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I'm not sure about Sicarius not being able to climb glass, as I can't find much written material about them, but I would presume from their appearance that they're more closely related to the old-world tarantulas than Atrax is, as they seem to resemble the Goliath bird eater, in some ways. While Sicarius is timid, that has to be taken with a grain of salt given the fact that Sicarius is much faster when attacking than Atrax is. Therefore, the question really is whether or not to expect Sicarius to have the ability to teleport if it really wants to.

Sicarius is unable to climb glass because they, along with all other genera in the family Sicariidae, lack claw tufts or tarsal scopula. That doesn't mean though that they couldn't get a grip with the tarsal claws in glass or plastic that has micro-scratches. The genus Atrax, and other genera in Hexathelidae, is more closely related to tarantulas as they are both within the infraorder Mygalomorphae and very distantly related to Sicarius in the infraorder Araneomorphae. There are very significant anatomical differences between the two infraorders.

When discussing which type of spider is more challenging to work with in captivity, one must consider not only speed, venom potency, etc,. but the ability to climb glass and smooth surfaces. From the videos of people working with Atrax robustus, it really looks like they are much easier to deal with than any tarantula would be since they can't climb smooth surfaces. Contrast to a Phoneutria species which has the metatarsal and tarsal scopula which allows them to scale smooth surfaces with ease. In my opinion Phoneutria species would be a much more challenging spider to deal with than Atrax species.

Would I keep an Atrax robustus or Hydronyche species if I could? Nope. They are not special at all except for their venom potency. If one would examine the taxonomy of the family Hexathelidae, one would see they are not really all that unique from the other non-tarantula mygalomorph families the world over. They only reason I could see anyone being infatuated with Atrax robustus is because of the venom potency and in my opinion those are not the type of people that should ever have one as a pet!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

They only reason I could see anyone being infatuated with Atrax robustus is because of the venom potency and in my opinion those are not the type of people that should ever have one as a pet!

Well, but what about that very little % of hardcore pet hole enthusiasts?

Among genus Hadronyche there's IMO nice species. People at the end keeps the "European A.robustus", M.calpeiana and such Mygalomorphae.

Don't get me wrong, you are right on that statement, but there's people like me that loves, basically, to collect enclosures full of dirt and holes

I'm not saying that I would keep one (it's basically impossible, and btw even if, still illegals here) and I think that A.robustus is a bit over-hyped but certain Hadronyche species seems cool.