How many would venture to make a project of keeping and raising genus Atrax?

[pannaking22]

Out of curiosity, where are you getting these bite records? I'd heard from someone who's from Australia that there were a handful of bites every year.

While it may only require 4 vials, that's a lot of spiders you have to milk to reach that point. I imagine 12 would be a heck of a drain on the system!

Unrelated, but when I typed Atrax robustus bite into Google, one of the first things to pop up was "Atrax robustus homeopathic remedy"...

 

[Ratmosphere]

I'd definitely enjoy keeping this species. You just really need to know what you are doing. I keep a few medically significant species and it's all about taking proper precautions. I know some people say "accidents happen" but if you are extremely cautious it could be done.

 

[RTTB]

I think of the cost factor. A rattlesnake bite in the US can end up with a $20,000 out of pocket bill or more. I would imagine an A robustus bite with emergency delivery of antivenin could double or triple that.Besides the health risks, is it worth it?

 

[atraxrobustus]

Out of curiosity, where are you getting these bite records? I'd heard from someone who's from Australia that there were a handful of bites every year.

While it may only require 4 vials, that's a lot of spiders you have to milk to reach that point. I imagine 12 would be a heck of a drain on the system!

Unrelated, but when I typed Atrax robustus bite into Google, one of the first things to pop up was "Atrax robustus homeopathic remedy"...

I actually sourced that out of the Australian media report cited as source on the Wikipedia article concerning Atrax robustus , citing an unprecedented survival of a 10 year-old boy whom had received 12 vials of antivenin with respect to a rather severe envenomation, from glancing over things. From most of the articles you'll find on A. robustus, it appears that encountering them is rare outside a male wondering out of it's own habitat, and that where people do encounter a wild A. robustus, bites are the rule rather than the exception, even with people having some experience handling arachnids, as from what I've been able to source the species is said to out do even the most aggressive old-world members of Family Theraphosidae, to the order of accounts of A. robustus actually giving chase rather unprovoked thereby making the most aggressive old-world Theraposidae seem docile in comparison.

 

[atraxrobustus]

I think of the cost factor. A rattlesnake bite in the US can end up with a $20,000 out of pocket bill or more. I would imagine an A robustus bite with emergency delivery of antivenin could double or triple that.Besides the health risks, is it worth it?

The thing is that your not going to get "emergency" antivenin with this species. It's been documented to kill a human within as little as 15 minutes post-bite. (that case was a small child). The onset of symptoms other than the pain from the initial bite is usually around 45 minutes, and as the venom mimics class-III anti-arrhythmic ion-blocking drugs, it normally causes death relatively quickly after the onset of symptoms starts. Therefore, typically if you cant get the first two vials of antivenin within the first 30 minutes or so, your typically already done for. With this one, its wise to keep antivenin on site.

 

[Smokehound714]

a bite from one of these spiders would ruin my life, assuming i survive.

 

[atraxrobustus]

a bite from one of these spiders would ruin my life, assuming i survive.

The bad thing about it is the death wouldn't be pleasant either- the venom is a muscular depolarizing agent, meaning essentially that it's a paralytic agent. Usually the technical cause of death is suffocation due to the failure of the diaphragm. A ventilator is often needed even with sufficient antivenin. One would rather be on the wrong end of a Lecterdectus species any day.

 

[RTTB]

Count me out.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

They're actually super easy to house and keep. They can't climb smooth surfaces well and aren't super fast, just keep it moist and give it some areas to shelter and it'll be perfectly happy (think like a slower but meaner baby Theraphosa). Also, on the subject of bites, female funnel webs don't have venom that's nearly as dangerous as the male's and seeing as they live far longer they're the ones you'd likely be keeping.

That's if you can get them out of Australia though

 

[Stefan2209]

They can't climb smooth surfaces well and aren't super fast

This. Safety and security measures should be easier than with Phoneutria to my limited experience with keeping Hexathelids. A bite though, i'd take much more serious than any P-bite.

Wonder, why is that particular interest in Atrax? Why not in Hadronyche, Missulena etc. ?

Makes me think of keeping that particular genus for all the wrong reasons.

 

[darkness975]

How many people would consider keeping the genus Atrax? ( A. Robustus, A. sutherlandi, and A. yorkmninorum ) ? While it would probably be extremely dangerous, I don't see how it would be necessarily out of the question, with the proper precautions.

Little more likeliness of being bitten than with any OW Tarantula or similar species for that matter. Though the Venom toxicity to humans (and other primates) obviously makes them far more "hot" than Tarantulas.

I'm sure many would be interested if these spiders became available.

Agreed. Not likely to ever be seen outside of Australia. Those who would be would be obviously be illegal and likely not to be shown off very publicly (one would hope, anyway).

I would just leave keeping this species to the experts as the risk versus rewards just doesn't sit well with me.

Androconus spp, Leiurus spp. and other species also have a high risk VS rewards factor. True that Scorpions, as well as Atrax robustus, cannot climb glass, so that mitigates it somewhat, but still you know what I mean.


Also, interesting factoid, the Venom is devastating to humans and primates but has little to no effect on other mammals such as dogs/cats/etc.

 

[atraxrobustus]

Little more likeliness of being bitten than with any OW Tarantula or similar species for that matter. Though the Venom toxicity to humans (and other primates) obviously makes them far more "hot" than Tarantulas.


Agreed. Not likely to ever be seen outside of Australia. Those who would be would be obviously be illegal and likely not to be shown off very publicly (one would hope, anyway).


Androconus spp, Leiurus spp. and other species also have a high risk VS rewards factor. True that Scorpions, as well as Atrax robustus, cannot climb glass, so that mitigates it somewhat, but still you know what I mean.


Also, interesting factoid, the Venom is devastating to humans and primates but has little to no effect on other mammals such as dogs/cats/etc.

My understanding was that Atrax would be quite a bit more aggressive than the old-world tarantulas, as to give a new shade of meaning to aggressiveness, as to give them their reputation for being particularly terroristic of a sort. I wasn't aware that they can't climb glass. (Which is good, meaning that in a glass terrarium they wouldn't be escape artists to the order of C. lividus.) As to the venom, it's quite unusual that it acts as a Potassium-ion blocker in humans, but doesn't posses this action in other primates. I'm not familiar with Androconus or Leiurus as to be able to immediately place them without looking it up.

 

[darkness975]

My understanding was that Atrax would be quite a bit more aggressive than the old-world tarantulas, as to give a new shade of meaning to aggressiveness, as to give them their reputation for being particularly terroristic of a sort. I wasn't aware that they can't climb glass. (Which is good, meaning that in a glass terrarium they wouldn't be escape artists to the order of C. lividus.) As to the venom, it's quite unusual that it acts as a Potassium-ion blocker in humans, but doesn't posses this action in other primates. I'm not familiar with Androconus or Leiurus as to be able to immediately place them without looking it up.

I thought I remember reading that it did affect other primates as well, hence the devastating effects on humans compared to other animals.

Hardly a "proven scientific" source but interesting read nonetheless:
https://biology.stackexchange.com/q...ethal-to-humans-and-not-so-much-for-other-mam

 

[atraxrobustus]

They're actually super easy to house and keep. They can't climb smooth surfaces well and aren't super fast, just keep it moist and give it some areas to shelter and it'll be perfectly happy (think like a slower but meaner baby Theraphosa). Also, on the subject of bites, female funnel webs don't have venom that's nearly as dangerous as the male's and seeing as they live far longer they're the ones you'd likely be keeping.

That's if you can get them out of Australia though

Interesting, as from what I heard anecdotally (which isn't much) and read, I got the impression that they were quite fast, similar to C. lividus, making them a challenge.

 

[atraxrobustus]

I thought I remember reading that it did affect other primates as well, hence the devastating effects on humans compared to other animals.

Hardly a "proven scientific" source but interesting read nonetheless:
https://biology.stackexchange.com/q...ethal-to-humans-and-not-so-much-for-other-mam

I'm sorry... when I typed primates, I was thinking mammals as you said, you were correct. I just didn't get to the editor in time hehe.

 

[darkness975]

I would call Atrax robustus over the top defensive, since the term "aggressive" makes it sound like they actively seek us out to bite. When disturbed (for a creature with limited "brain" power it doesn't take much) they just fly off the rails, but in every other way they act like basically every other ground dwelling spider I know of.

In all honesty this species is quite a mystery. Like the random guy earlier said, it could be as simple as dumb luck given the chemical composition of primate DNA and the chemical composition of Atrax robustus venom that is the explanation for why it is so highly effective against us.

 

[The Snark]

In all honesty this species is quite a mystery. Like the random guy earlier said, it could be as simple as dumb luck given the chemical composition of primate DNA and the chemical composition of Atrax robustus venom that is the explanation for why it is so highly effective against us.

One naturalist put it rather succinctly. Australia being frozen in time with very little changes in climate, flora and fauna for many thousands of years has had a distilling effect on many of it's animals.

 

[schmiggle]

One naturalist put it rather succinctly. Australia being frozen in time with very little changes in climate, flora and fauna for many thousands of years has had a distilling effect on many of it's animals.

This is an interesting take, but everything I've seen has said isolated islands usually have less aggressive, less competitive species.
One thing that is interesting about Australia (that this person may have been referring to) is that colubrid snakes, which are usually non-venomous or mildly so (I know two exceptions), did not arrive there until late, so almost all of the niches they would usually fill were already taken by elapid snakes, which are almost all lethally venomous. Where in other areas a minority of snake species are non-venomous, in Australia the majority are dangerously venomous, due simply to a quirk in who arrived when.
On the other hand, Australia does, I think, have more than its fair share of venomous spiders as well, as far as I know...

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Interesting, as from what I heard anecdotally (which isn't much) and read, I got the impression that they were quite fast, similar to C. lividus, making them a challenge.

They don't bolt at a million miles an hour like an OW tarantula might, they're more standoffish and will just sort if threat pose and hold their position

 

[Dennis Nedry]

My understanding was that Atrax would be quite a bit more aggressive than the old-world tarantulas, as to give a new shade of meaning to aggressiveness, as to give them their reputation for being particularly terroristic of a sort.

That comes down to the fight or flight response, most old worlds pick flight when disturbed at first, either running or retreating to a burrow. However given the fact that A. robustus is slow they need a different way to defend themselves, this leads to their extremely grouchy attitude when threatened. When confronted they almost never give a dry bite and will often bite repeatedly injecting rather large amounts of venom for a spider. An OW or Phoneutria might seem more aggressive/defensive due to their speed but they don't drip venom from their fangs just waiting to pump a threat full of venom