how long have tarantulas been around?

ornata

Arachnoknight
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hi

anybody who have any idea of how long tarantulas have been around, I have heard about 40 million years..but some say more!?
 

JungleGuts

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you will probably get eather the 5,000 year answer or Millions of years answer. Ill stick by the 5,000 year as i believe thats approx how old the earth is, obiviously i believe in creation...though i respect the evolution standpoint. Hopefully this dosnt turn into a creation vs. evolution thread. Flat out answer theres no way to know an exact answer or prove an answer.
 

DrAce

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My understanding (confirmed by some internet searching) indicates that the first spider fossil is dated at about 400 MYA (million years ago).

Megalomorphic spiders (tarantulas and other downward fanged spiders) have fossils which date back about 230 MYA.

That's just-pre-triassic, or about the time the dinosaurs were wandering about eating all the people and leaving no fossil human bones behind.

Of course, some more hard-core Christian would probably tell you "about 6000 years". (I see someone bet me to it, but I stand by my '6000' year comment... I think it's just over 6000 years as the biblical estimate)
 

ornata

Arachnoknight
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My understanding (confirmed by some internet searching) indicates that the first spider fossil is dated at about 400 MYA (million years ago).

Megalomorphic spiders (tarantulas and other downward fanged spiders) have fossils which date back about 230 MYA.

That's just-pre-triassic, or about the time the dinosaurs were wandering about eating all the people and leaving no fossil human bones behind.

Of course, some more hard-core Christian would probably tell you "about 6000 years". (I see someone bet me to it, but I stand by my '6000' year comment... I think it's just over 6000 years as the biblical estimate)
hmm...I thought the first spiders had downward fangs,and that they actually looked very much like some of the trapdoor spiders we have today, interesting:?
 

fantaaaa

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Megalomorphae (tarantula-type spiders)are dated back 235-240 million years.
(Dunlop 1993)

The "modern" tarantulas as we know them (theraposidae) are dated back 67-2 million years. (tertiary geolocical time)
 

Drachenjager

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yeah thats a loaded question lol
I think what you shoudl have asked is "by the general consensus of scientist concerned with the evolution of species, how long have the tarantulas or other myglamorphs been around?" then you wouldnt get any debate on old or young earth or creation vs evolution ... oh well

I think they have been around a long time and ill leave it there ROTFLOL , even longer than i have been arond... there may even be some individual Ts left from when sharp tooth tried to eat duckie...probably a G. rosea lol
 

lunixweb

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Well, I have read in many places info about this and I would say that T's appeared on the Earth 300 million years ago and their evolution has been minimum due to the great perfection and capacity of adaptation that they have maintained.
 

ShadowBlade

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let me just say that God doesn't exist, so no, this shouldn't become an evolution debate.
Well, you just self-invalidated your opinion in such a debate anyway, so I'm glad it doesn't start. There's threads for this in the Watering Hole.

@Topic
You'd have to define tarantula. Whether you want to narrow it as just 'Theraphosids', or take it to Mygalamorphs, or what.

-Sean
 

ornata

Arachnoknight
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hello

when I say tarantulas I think about the family theraphosidae,since other mygalamorphe spiders are not called tarantulas,
any way, I think tarantulas have evolved from other mygalamorphe spiders that look very much like todays trapdoor spiders, but nobody really knows...I think!?:?
 

Drachenjager

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let me just say that God doesn't exist, so no, this shouldn't become an evolution debate.
hmmm so certian of something that can not be proven arent we.
I have never seen a platypus , nor have i seen what it does. does this make a platypus not exist?
granted its not quite the same, but sort of
however lets not get off topic.

I would like to find one of those "ancient" tarantula like critters that they showed on the discovery channel wiht a 24" LS lol that would rock
 

Jonathan Rice

Arachnoknight
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Millions of years if you count fossils of prehistoric ancestors of the modern day tarantula. Someone here must know a more accurate date though..
 

By-Tor

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"I have never seen a platypus , nor have i seen what it does. does this make a platypus not exist?"

ever hear of an unobserved observer? but really an evolution vs creationism thing is quite pointless, my dad's an elder in the methodist church but he believes in evolution and tends to reconcile science and religion, ie the two different creation stories at the begining of the bible one where everything is created over time starting from simple things in the sea working up to man over a time the other is where everything get's blown together out of dust and god realizes adam shouldn't have sex with animals and makes eve....again it isn't that important

the carbon data shows that the fossils date back to blah blah blah millions of years ago for different forms of spiders
 

Cheshire

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the carbon data shows that the fossils date back to blah blah blah millions of years ago for different forms of spiders
<Sigh>

Carbon-14 dating can only be used with fossils that are less than 50,000 years old (and I consider Carbon-14 dating to only be acurate to 35,000 or 40,000 years...personal well read opinion) because the half life of C-14 is only 50,000 years.

Potassium-Argon and Argon-Argon dating are usually what are used to date fossils IIRC. Uranium-Thorium dating is usually used to date the layers the fossils are found in. I know of other radioactive dating methods, but those are the only ones I am familiar with as of now.

Cross referencing between radioactive dating methods usually works pretty well. They usually end up pretty close to each other. I'd like to say a couple million years, but at this point I'm not as familiar with these dating methods as I'd like to be. I'm far more familiar with C-14.

The earliest known spider fossil, Attercopus, lived ~380 million years ago.

The split between mygalamorphs and true spiders probably occurred sometime between 250 and 300 million years ago and tarantulas couldn't have been too far behind that.
 
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By-Tor

Arachnosquire
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sorry i don't know enough of half lives and radioactive decay, i'm still curious to how long it would take one atom of Uranium to decay(especially if surrounded by 20 ft of lead)wouldn't neutrino's be the only factor then or am i just a fuzzy logiked highschool student?
 
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