How common is it for an Avic to molt on the ground? - UPDATE: She has passed.

[mistertim]

So a couple days ago my A. versicolor was up and seemed fine in her tube web up at the top of her enclosure...then I wake up yesterday and glance and she's down on the sub sort of curled up on the edge of her water dish and just hanging out there. Doesn't look like a death curl, she doesn't appear dehydrated or anything as she always has fresh water, and she is responsive but very sluggish.

She has been refusing food for a while now so I'm pretty sure she's been premolt. I'm a bit worried but wondering if Avics will molt down on the ground sometimes? My thoughts and experience were generally that they tend to molt up in their webs, but I figured I'd check in with some of the more seasoned Avic keepers here. Attached a pic.

 

[Venom1080]

maybe she cant climb up, being in heavy premolt and all?

 

[mistertim]

maybe she cant climb up, being in heavy premolt and all?

Hm. Could be, that makes some sense. Came down to get some water and was like "f this, I'm staying here".

 

[14pokies]

I don't like the looks of it..
My versi ( I have 3) and my other avic always molt in there web. I can't recall any avic I have ever owned molting on the ground..

*Edit* I have a sub adult versi that won't leave her web while in premolt.. I use a syring and leave a drop of water in her web next to her once or twice a week and she drinks everytime..

 

[Ellenantula]

Mine always moults in a special web tube hammock near very top of tank. Completely closes it off. Doesn't seem too promising to be hanging around water dish like that. Hope yours will return to top soon.

 

[Kodi]

I'm not liking the position of her legs. She may have fallen. Has she moved at all?

 

[mistertim]

I'm not liking the position of her legs. She may have fallen. Has she moved at all?

Yeah but very sluggishly. She moved a little bit when I opened the door and brushed her back leg with a paintbrush just to gauge her response. Yeah a fall is possible too. Maybe she was coming down and fell because she couldn't hang on to the enclosure wall. All I can really do now is wait I suppose. She obviously has access to water as she's basically sitting on her water dish. I suppose I could try to relocate her to her web but that would be assuming a fall or something and might not do any good.

I don't see any obvious signs of a fall but its hard to tell when she's bunched up.

 

[14pokies]

Yeah but very sluggishly. She moved a little bit when I opened the door and brushed her back leg with a paintbrush just to gauge her response. Yeah a fall is possible too. Maybe she was coming down and fell because she couldn't hang on to the enclosure wall. All I can really do now is wait I suppose. She obviously has access to water as she's basically sitting on her water dish. I suppose I could try to relocate her to her web but that would be assuming a fall or something and might not do any good.

I don't see any obvious signs of a fall but its hard to tell when she's bunched up.

She may of just needed a drink and is kind of pooped from crawling down in her weakened state hopefully she will return to her web..

I have a little versi that wondered around like crazy the day before it molted.. It was hanging upside down over the water dish the cork bark.. You know every hazardous place she could possibly molt over.. I was kind of worried all night and then saw that she had molted in her web like any normal sane avic would that next morning..

I hope she returns to her web for you and molts successfully bro..

 

[N1ghtFire]

Hard tell but in the picture she looks pretty fat. That along with being in premolt and she probably lost her grip and fell. Ive heard they have trouble hanging onto the sides of their enclosures when they are in premolt anyways. If she doesnt seem injured id just leave her and watch, she knows how to spider. She will spider back up to her web when she can.

 

[Jeff23]

Two of mine did this, but they are slings and were in new homes. I had just bought them. Maybe there was too little time to web up in these cases.

 

[viper69]

@mistertim I have never seen an Avic molt on the sub floor, doesn't mean it hasn't happened somewhere. I have Avics who have made low level hammocks above the sub (like 0.5" above) and molted, but not on sub.

@Kodi mentioned s/he didn't like the position of the legs. I disagree on this. Avics generally don't come down to the sub floor to wander as we know. I've seen many of my Avics do everything in their power to not touch the ground even though they were about 1/4" above it hah.

My 4" A. geroldi has her legs in that position when she is hunting crickets upside down as she walks on the outside of her canopy. She does everything she can not to touch the sub, and thus due to her size remains scrunched up.

That is what it looks like your versi is doing, hanging onto to that dish so it won't touch the sub.

Of course, I've seen a few adults come down and walk along the sub briefly every now and then too.

 

[Kodi]

@mistertim I have never seen an Avic molt on the sub floor, doesn't mean it hasn't happened somewhere. I have Avics who have made low level hammocks above the sub (like 0.5" above) and molted, but not on sub.

@Kodi mentioned s/he didn't like the position of the legs. I disagree on this. Avics generally don't come down to the sub floor to wander as we know. I've seen many of my Avics do everything in their power to not touch the ground even though they were about 1/4" above it hah.

My 4" A. geroldi has her legs in that position when she is hunting crickets upside down as she walks on the outside of her canopy. She does everything she can not to touch the sub, and thus due to her size remains scrunched up.

That is what it looks like your versi is doing, hanging onto to that dish so it won't touch the sub.

Of course, I've seen a few adults come down and walk along the sub briefly every now and then too.

I'm a guy by the way.

 

[viper69]

I'm a guy by the way.

I don't recall what I read on here, but some post of yours a while back made me think you weren't at one point. Thanks for the clarification, I don't assume profile info is accurate. Women get harassed on the net, often drop in male for the gender box.

 

[Kodi]

I don't recall what I read on here, but some post of yours a while back made me think you weren't at one point. Thanks for the clarification, I don't assume profile info is accurate. Women get harassed on the net, often drop in male for the gender box.

Yeah no problem it was probably a post where I mentioned a boyfriend.

 

[cold blood]

While I agree with viper, I can say that I do have adult Avics that always molt on the ground. My avics are 4 AF A. avic and 1 MM, 1 sub adult female A. ulrichea, 2 A. versicolor, one 1.75", the other 3.25" and a pair of 5-6" AF urticans. All have molted off the ground with the exception of one of the avic avics and both urticans. Those urticans are on the ground more than any avic I've ever had....great eaters, good growth rates and pretty has heck. These are the urticans, one just molted and you can see the mat on the floor, the other is just setting up to molt, and she went behind 2 pieces of wood on the barren side (she pulled all the plants to the other side) and parked on the ground and started to web.

I worry a heck of a lot more when I see a sling at ground level, the only time I had that happen was with a purpurea, which is the only avic I've lost as a sling.

 

[elysium]

I really hope your versicolor is okay... I don't like the look of that stance, especially that left leg 3 that's curled in like that...

 

[viper69]

View attachment 223135 View attachment 223133 While I agree with viper, I can say that I do have adult Avics that always molt on the ground. My avics are 4 AF A. avic and 1 MM, 1 sub adult female A. ulrichea, 2 A. versicolor, one 1.75", the other 3.25" and a pair of 5-6" AF urticans. All have molted off the ground with the exception of one of the avic avics and both urticans. Those urticans are on the ground more than any avic I've ever had....great eaters, good growth rates and pretty has heck. These are the urticans, one just molted and you can see the mat on the floor, the other is just setting up to molt, and she went behind 2 pieces of wood on the barren side (she pulled all the plants to the other side) and parked on the ground and started to web.

I worry a heck of a lot more when I see a sling at ground level, the only time I had that happen was with a purpurea, which is the only avic I've lost as a sling.

That's funny my urticans never did that. I think it's so amazing at times how different they can be.

 

[14pokies]

I think it's so amazing at times how different they can be.

Or how different they act in different set ups.. I recently aquired an A.avic that was set up similarly to coldbloods and it was webbing on the ground.. It did this twice with the previous owner both times he rehoused it.. I arranged 2 stalks of palm fronds into a tube of sorts and she is webbing from top to bottom..

 

[viper69]

Or how different they act in different set ups

I've always felt that a lot of us report "mine never does that" for various things, but what we don't always mention is how they are kept. I think that has a significant influence at times on how the Ts decide to make camp.

Or in my case, the same T in the same container. My AF minatrix was rehoused about a year ago into larger container from her home of 3 years. After 3 years of canopy life, she made this odd L shaped tube on the ground! She stayed there for a year. I thought she was going to molt, never did. After months of webbing on/off, seeing her only move up and down I destroyed the tube (concerned she may just die- she lost A LOT of weight too), and put her back into the same container. I didn't wash it. She's been in there the past 2 months or so and went back to making a canopy.

 

[14pokies]

I've always felt that a lot of us report "mine never does that" for various things, but what we don't always mention is how they are kept. I think that has a significant influence at times on how the Ts decide to make camp.

Or in my case, the same T in the same container. My AF minatrix was rehoused about a year ago into larger container from her home of 3 years. After 3 years of canopy life, she made this odd L shaped tube on the ground! She stayed there for a year. I thought she was going to molt, never did. After months of webbing on/off, seeing her only move up and down I destroyed the tube (concerned she may just die- she lost A LOT of weight too), and put her back into the same container. I didn't wash it. She's been in there the past 2 months or so and went back to making a canopy.

I Completely agree and it's why it's so important for members to post pics of there Ts enclosure temps and any other useful info when trying to trouble shoot a "weird" behavior or a problem..

I have a female versi that is closing in on maturity fast and she is the most skittish sensitive to change T I have kept in a long time..
She is in a barren cramped enclosure but is doing awesome.. I was going to rehouse her this last molt but my gut told me not to for fear that she won't acclimate well.
What I may do is set up an enclosure big enough to fit her old one into and leave the top off of the old one and then remove it if she settles into the new enclosure..
I'm almost positive that if I yank her out of the enclosure she has been in for the last 2yrs she is going to tank...