"highland/lowland"

[RatKing216]

Can someone please explain the Highland & Lowland terms for me?

 

[Spiderman24]

Good question tom. Lol one I would love answered as well.

And to the guy after him the only things I know of are size color patterns. Just minor differences but somewhat major in patterns

---------- Post added at 01:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 AM ----------

Stick around tomorrow afternoon I'm sure my post will go into an uproar of arguments on what people view Nd believe is right.

 

[Poxicator]

All the pix you have posted look P. subfusca Highland to me.

The difference is locational, size and colour. The highland species are found above the tea plantations of Sri Lanka (approx 2,000m asl), where temperatures rarely exceed 70s during the day and drop to 50s at night. The lowland species are larger and lighter in colour, found around Kandy (below 400m asl).

Its worth noting that the full colouration of Poecilotheria presents itself only at adult stages.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

All the pix you have posted look P. subfusca Highland to me.

The difference is locational, size and colour. The highland species are found above the tea plantations of Sri Lanka (approx 2,000m asl), where temperatures rarely exceed 70s during the day and drop to 50s at night. The lowland species are larger and lighter in colour, found around Kandy (below 400m asl).

Its worth noting that the full colouration of Poecilotheria presents itself only at adult stages.

I'm confused, then why are people selling Kandy highlands? :?

 

[Philth]

Interesting bit of info Poxicator, and I guess to confuse things more they sell Kandy highlands like Protectyaaaneck mentioned :?:wall::? No body is making this easy for me lol!

Anybody want to take a guess at what morph this is?....

Later, Tom

 

[Poxicator]

The truth is, as can be seen by this thread and others like them, that people are very confused by P. subfusca Highland and Lowland. At less than 400m it would be hard to consider a montane species of tarantula as high. So, it baffles me why people call them high, but its an error on their part. To simplify the area where subfusca are found, the tea plantations separate the highland from lowland and the tea plantations stop around Nuwara Eliya as tea doesn't grow well at higher elevations. This is where the remainder of the coffee plantations exist but are now merely part of the wild forest.

Ive seen people offer highlands as lowlands and recently asked Michael Scheller to confirm the subfusca I have are lowland. These were supplied to me as offspring from WC stock about 3 years ago. He has excellent examples of highland and lowland in his gallery. I too thought I had both from the same sac but having seen the clear differences I think it was mere variation (both turned out to be female).

Having spoken to at least 1 taxonomist that has studied subfusca I was told that the 2 forms have no taxonomical differences. Recently it seems the paper that was going to reinstate P. bara has been shelved. So, since 1996 we have referred to both of these as P. subfusca.

Considering all this, it would be foolish IMO to intentionally breed the 2 forms, it would merely dilute the stock we have in our possession. And, with possibilities of Poecilotheria entering CITES mixing the stock we have seems the worst path to take.

As the OP has a pair from the same sac I'd advise that a partner from an alternative stock is sought if he intends to breed these.

Michael Scheller's images can be found here:
http://meyken.spiderlinge.de/?Galerie&pic=75&page=8

@Philth, I'd guess you have highland there, showing the purples and darker colouration. lowland tend to be more chocolate brown colouration.

I hasten to add, this is only my understanding of things, I'm no officiando on this and still keep an open mind to all pokies.

 

[Spiderman24]

It's kinda hard to see through my pictures but as you can see even before molting they looked to be two different t's entirely and now after molt its even more noticeable as to the difference I'm still waiting to get post molt pics of my female "highland" up. I have always had my opinion that they are the same t just as Statefarm before color variants. And if they were both "highlands" and are from the sane sac. Why is the carapase so different and the abdominal markings completely different. I mean its obvious it is very hard to say which is which, but I can't see at all how they are the same in the slightest by size and color. The "lowland" seems to be a lot leggier compared to the highland though. I don't really know what to think on the subject this is all very confusing. But I assure the male I do have is not from the sane sac as the three girls. so there will be no cross breeding or inter sac breeding. Lol

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

That example lowland sp you offered in the link looks very much so like the first images I had displayed.

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

I'm confused, then why are people selling Kandy highlands? :?

A question I'm now pondering as well.

 

[Poxicator]

This is how my lowland juveniles looked:

Here's the carapace from one of my mature females

and her on full show

 

[Spiderman24]

Man is she gorgeous! Mine are all sub adults each between 5-6" I have three "highlands" that have been around since 1" and now I have this one that is not shaping up like the rest. It was given to me as "male" and looks nothing like my actual male. So I sexed it via molt and its female but also looks nothing like my females so I got under the assumption that it was a "lowland" started looking up other "lowlands" and sure enough through the carapase I'D numerous pictures of others and the "color variations" between the two it is in fact "lowland" I've only seen plenty juvies of both and none of them looked anything like what I have. Then just slowly gave up and said to myself when there next molt comes let's hope they POP out some more distinct differences. And sure enough they molted on the same day just hours apart. So that's when sexing came into place because of t major difference and once I found out he was female. I began to dive deep.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

Just got a few post molt pictures of the female I can email to you if you'd like to better understand what I'm coming from

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

Let me rephrase that the female highland that came from the same sac as the female "lowland" i

 

[Philth]

@Philth, I'd guess you have highland there, showing the purples and darker colouration. lowland tend to be more chocolate brown colouration.
.

Interesting. The spider above was sold to me as a "highland" , but I always thought it looked like a "lowland" At least compaired to other pics of highlands I've seen. :?:wall:

Maybe I just need to see a real "lowland" in person to understand the differance. :?

Later, Tom

 

[Spiderman24]

Yeah pictures I think are hard capturing the real thing

 

[Poxicator]

I just love that thread Philth, many hours Ive spent studying it and Ive done a few deals with some people that have posted in there.
Might just have to add some pix in there from this year success

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

I literally just rehoused this girl because I thought she might be gravid and wanted her to be in a nice clean cage if that was the case. She does look a little gravid but it's hard to tell. She might just be really chunky.

Anywho, what is everyones take on this girl, she was sold as just a p. subfusca. I contacted the seller a little time after purchasing, asking if he knew whether or not it was highland or lowland, he said he wasn't sure but thought it was lowland. Well, as it grew, it started looking nothing like the lowlands I've seen, so I figured she was a highland. I even mated her to a highland male so hopefully I got things right.

 

[Spiderman24]

I would agree with your choice highland and she looks gravid to me. Have you tried candle lighting her?

 

[Philth]

That one looks highlandy-ish too me. Again makes me think they are already mixed (or the same thing) when dealers dont know what they have.

Yours compared to what I have as Highland look different to me though.....like I said a few times in this thread ....:?:wall::?

Later, Tom

 

[Spiderman24]

It is a very confusing ordeal. Lol

 

[pato_chacoana]

Interesting. The spider above was sold to me as a "highland" , but I always thought it looked like a "lowland" At least compaired to other pics of highlands I've seen. :?:wall:

Maybe I just need to see a real "lowland" in person to understand the differance. :?

Later, Tom

Maybe there's lowland ''light form'' and lowland ''dark form''
Of all ''subfuscas'' I like the dark and big one lol

 

[syndicate]

Interesting. The spider above was sold to me as a "highland" , but I always thought it looked like a "lowland" At least compaired to other pics of highlands I've seen. :?:wall:



Later, Tom

Agreed Tom...
To me the ones that are "supposed" to be lowland form look much darker and have less pattern on abdomen and carapace.Like the one in this photo from the link u provided http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/BoToXo/DSC_00061-3.jpg

I've totally seen people have photos of subfusca that are supposed to be highland look dark and vice versa lol!I keep all the subfusca I have here labeled by who they came from just in case.
Supposedly there was someone doing DNA research on the two forms but I dunno what the outcome of this was.Also like you mention Tom some very reliable people say that both color forms can come from one egg sack so unless anyone can prove that wrong I would not doubt it!Also worth mentioning that many species of tarantulas with large ranges can have different colors/sizes depending on where they are found.Aphonopelma hentzi is a great example of this.
More reading for people here:
http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=13431&hl=lowland&st=25

-Chris

 

[Philth]

Thanks for the link Chris, its been awhile since I've read through that one. Im still thoroughly confused:?
Later, Tom

 

[Spyder 1.0]

I only see one P.bara aka P.subfusca lowland in this thread (as an adult at least). OP has two highlands, Philth has a P.bara, the rest are highland (not counting the juviniles listed)

IMHO.