Heterometrus sp. from Thailand. Adult female looking gravid. Ideas as to species?

xenesthis

Arachnobaron
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Heterometrus sp. from Thailand. Adult female looking gravid. Ideas as to species?
Heterometrus(f)_Thai_AD1_jpg.jpeg
 

Collin Clary

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Are you certain it's an adult and that it's from Thailand? If so, which part of Thailand?
 

Collin Clary

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The pic clearly shows it's an adult and yes, Thailand in origin. Exact locality in Thailand is unknown.
If it clearly showed it was an adult, I wouldn't be asking you if you were certain. The proportions (narrow chelae and metasoma) of this particular animal are more in line with a subadult for the most common species in the pet trade (i.e., H. silenus). This could be simple intraspecific variation of course.

Most of the Heterometrus specimens in the hobby are H. silenus, and are typically from Vietnam regardless of the alleged country of origin.

The species found in mainland Thailand is H. laoticus, however I believe I can see granulation on the carapace/tergites which would rule out this species.

H. laevigatus can also be found in Thailand on the upper half of the Malay Peninsula. This species has entered the pet trade in small numbers in recent years, and is still fairly rare in the hobby. If you are certain the animal was collected in Thailand, then this is the most likely species.

H. thorelli is also be found in Thailand along the border with Myanmar, however this species is not in the pet trade.
 

xenesthis

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Thanks for the info! Wow a sub-adult! That means this species grows to quite a large size. Ruling out Vietnam export. Definitely Thailand. I'll have really good pics to post Wed. night or Thur. Can you rule out H. spinifer? I've seen H. laoticus before, so I lean on H. laeviagatus as the timing of the available specimens makes sense. My Malaysian H. spinifer have a very "glossy black" coloration, but these are "flat black".
 

Collin Clary

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Thanks for the info! Wow a sub-adult! That means this species grows to quite a large size. Ruling out Vietnam export. Definitely Thailand. I'll have really good pics to post Wed. night or Thur. Can you rule out H. spinifer? I've seen H. laoticus before, so I lean on H. laeviagatus as the timing of the available specimens makes sense. My Malaysian H. spinifer have a very "glossy black" coloration, but these are "flat black".
H. spinifer are really only found on peninsular Malaysia, so it's unlikely. Additionally, they have pale yellow/orange telsons as juveniles and are typically dark red as adults. I've attached images of a juvenile and an adult below.
 

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xenesthis

Arachnobaron
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H. spinifer are really only found on peninsular Malaysia, so it's unlikely. Additionally, they have pale yellow/orange telsons as juveniles and are typically dark red as adults. I've attached images of a juvenile and an adult below.
Thanks! I'll have good pics of these Thai locality scorpions Wed. or Thur. I'm looking for the black and white drawings by Kovarik showing the granulation details in this genus.
 

Edan bandoot

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If it clearly showed it was an adult, I wouldn't be asking you if you were certain. The proportions (narrow chelae and metasoma) of this particular animal are more in line with a subadult for the most common species in the pet trade (i.e., H. silenus). This could be simple intraspecific variation of course.

Most of the Heterometrus specimens in the hobby are H. silenus, and are typically from Vietnam regardless of the alleged country of origin.

The species found in mainland Thailand is H. laoticus, however I believe I can see granulation on the carapace/tergites which would rule out this species.

H. laevigatus can also be found in Thailand on the upper half of the Malay Peninsula. This species has entered the pet trade in small numbers in recent years, and is still fairly rare in the hobby. If you are certain the animal was collected in Thailand, then this is the most likely species.

H. thorelli is also be found in Thailand along the border with Myanmar, however this species is not in the pet trade.
I'd like to add that thorelli is present in the Asian hobby but has likely not been purposefully shipped to north America due to lack of demand.
 

Lots Of Legs Thailand

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Heterometrus sp. from Thailand. Adult female looking gravid. Ideas as to species?
View attachment 421829
May I ask where you got her from ? If you put her into a larger enclosure she will give birth tomorrow. I think she is one of ours from Uthai Thani we exported a shipment to USA around 1 month ago and 80% where gravid , picture attached is from the same breeding group
 

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xenesthis

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May I ask where you got her from ? If you put her into a larger enclosure she will give birth tomorrow. I think she is one of ours from Uthai Thani we exported a shipment to USA around 1 month ago and 80% where gravid , picture attached is from the same breeding group
So, what species is from Uthai Thani? This sounds like the timing of when the Thai scorpions came into the U.S.
 
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xenesthis

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O.k. First pics of an adult female Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) and possibly from Utah Thani province. Heterometrus_Thailand(f)AD1.jpeg Heterometrus_Thailand(f)AD1_ultraviolent.jpeg

sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 2 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province that has wide and long pectines. Heterometrus_Thailand(M)SA_2.jpeg

sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 3 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province that has wide and long pectines.

Sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 4 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province. Unknown sex.
Heterometrus_Thailand_SA_4.jpeg

Sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 5 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province. Unknown sex.
Heterometrus_Thailand_SA5.jpeg

Sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 6 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province. Unknown sex.
Heterometrus_Thailand_SA6.jpeg

Sub-adult Heterometrus sp. (Thailand) (reference scorpion 7 in replies/comments) and possibly from Utah Thani province. Unknown sex.
*** This is the last one. 7 specimens of this species. One definite female (gravid), 2 probable males (#2 and #3) and the other 4 unknown sexing.

Heterometrus_Thailand_SA7.jpeg
 

The Snark

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Well, it's most likely not Spinifer. They reflect light as a gray-green color. As for Utah Thani, that is smack in the middle of all six species. Silenus, Laoticus, Spinifer, Longimanus, Cyaneus and Fulvipes. All six are found in central Thailand.
 

Collin Clary

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Well, it's most likely not Spinifer. They reflect light as a gray-green color. As for Utah Thani, that is smack in the middle of all six species. Silenus, Laoticus, Spinifer, Longimanus, Cyaneus and Fulvipes. All six are found in central Thailand.
Heterometrus silenus, H. spinifer, and H. longimanus are not found on mainland Thailand. Javanimetrus cyaneus has an extremely wide range so it might be, but they're very distinctive and not easiy confused with other species. Chersonesometrus fulvipes is found in India, and has yellow legs and round chelae with heavy granulation, so it is absolutely out of the question.

ID help? Thanks!
I'm fairly confident they're Heterometrus laevigatus. Uthai Thani is pretty close to the peninsula, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that their range extends onto the mainland. The morphology also matches up. Males will develop longer pedipalps than females as they mature, and you can start to see this characteristic in some of the specimens in your photos.
 

xenesthis

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Heterometrus silenus, H. spinifer, and H. longimanus are not found on mainland Thailand. Javanimetrus cyaneus has an extremely wide range so it might be, but they're very distinctive and not easiy confused with other species. Chersonesometrus fulvipes is found in India, and has yellow legs and round chelae with heavy granulation, so it is absolutely out of the question.



I'm fairly confident they're Heterometrus laevigatus. Uthai Thani is pretty close to the peninsula, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that their range extends onto the mainland. The morphology also matches up. Males will develop longer pedipalps than females as they mature, and you can start to see this characteristic in some of the specimens in your photos.
Thanks for your opinion Collin! Playing devil's advocate, why would they not be H. laoticus? P.S. Kovarik thought these were H. silenus. Who do you follow, Predini or Kovarik?
 
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Collin Clary

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Thanks for your opinion Collin! Playing devil's advocate, why would they not be H. laoticus? P.S. Kovarik thought these were H. silenus. Who do you follow, Predini or Kovarik?
H. laoticus have a carapace and tergites that are completely smooth. The animals in your photos have visible granulation in these areas.

H. silenus is the most common species in the pet trade, and is what I initially thought these animals were. However their range is restricted to Vietnam, and you seemed certain that these animals were from Thailand. That being said, just because they were exported out of Thailand, doesn't mean they were actually collected there. If they're H. silenus they will be readily identifiable once they're adults. Male H. silenus do not have the elongated pedipalps of male H. laevigatus, however H. silenus does exhibit sexual dimorphism in that males have an enlarged tooth on the moveable finger of the chelae.

Edit: Prendini's work is the most recent and comprehensive. The revision is available here: http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/handle/2246/7246
 

The Snark

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Heterometrus silenus, H. spinifer, and H. longimanus are not found on mainland Thailand. Javanimetrus cyaneus has an extremely wide range so it might be, but they're very distinctive and not easiy confused with other species. Chersonesometrus fulvipes is found in India, and has yellow legs and round chelae with heavy granulation, so it is absolutely out of the question.
Could you please cite references?

H. Tibetanus, Petersii (Silenus) and Longimanus have been found in various scientific studies at the North Chiang Mai university and several study centers in China. They are considered the three indigenous members of Heterometrus in China.

Petersii was first catalogued by Thorell in Vietnam. His studies were confined principally to the central location of the French colony in Vietnam and extended to Laos and Cambodia. Thorell's studies have been superseded numerous times: To date, Encyclopedia of Life listings of Heterometrus. All of the following are subject to being updated as genetic identification reclassifies them. Nearly all entries include
Definition: This organism is known to be present in this location or region. Not exclusive; other regions may also be reported.
I have the study from North Chiang Mai University which extends from Taichelek in Burma to Arunyaprathet to Khao Laem National Park. Unfortunately it is in Thai and I haven't followed up on an English translation. It will be or is waiting to be vetted by a peer review. Likely to be superseded by the genetic study.

Heterometrus atrascorpius Mirza, Joshi, Desouza & Sanap 2012

Heterometrus barberi (Pocock 1900)

Heterometrus beccaloniae Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus bengalensis (C. L. Koch 1841)

Heterometrus cimrmani Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus cyaneus (C. L. Koch 1836)

Heterometrus flavimanus (Pocock 1900)

Heterometrus fulvipes (C. L. Koch 1837)

Heterometrus gravimanus (Pocock 1894)

Heterometrus indus (De Geer 1778)

Heterometrus kanarensis (Pocock 1900)

Heterometrus keralaensis Tikader & Bastawade 1983

Heterometrus laoticus Couzijn 1981

Heterometrus latimanus (Pocock 1894)

Heterometrus liangi Zhu & Yang 2007

Heterometrus liophysa (Thorell 1888)

Heterometrus liurus (Pocock 1897)

Heterometrus longimanus (Herbst 1800)

Heterometrus madraspatensis (Pocock 1900)

Heterometrus mysorensis Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus nepalensis Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus phipsoni (Pocock 1893)

Heterometrus rolciki Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus scaber (Thorell 1876)

Heterometrus sejnai Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus spinifer (Ehrenberg 1828)

Heterometrus swammerdami Simon 1872

Heterometrus telanganaensis Javed, Mirza, Tampal & Lourenço 2010

Heterometrus thorellii (Pocock 1892)

Heterometrus tibetanus Lourenço, Qi & Zhu 2005

Heterometrus tristis (Henderson 1919)

Heterometrus ubicki Kovarik 2004

Heterometrus wroughtoni (Pocock 1899)

Heterometrus xanthopus (Pocock 1897)
 
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The Snark

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I linked Prendini's revision in my last comment. Nearly all of the species you just listed have been reclassified in some way.
Looks like I'm going to have to take that trip to the university. They probably are aware of the revisions but getting a glomp like that translated... always some time lag with these operations. Note the most recent update on the data from China still uses the name Petersii.
That really should be made into a sticky but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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