Help with Avic

Hack Job

Arachnopeon
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Feb 3, 2016
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Hello,

We need some advice on my daughters A. Avicularia. We got 'Charlotte' from Petco in Jan 2016 and rehoused her as shown below. Typically she stays on her wall hidden in the leaves, only coming down when she is hungry. She eats a med cricket about once a week. She has not molted since we got her.

Yesterday morning she was on the surface but would not eat a cricket. The cricket was removed and we assumed she was preparing to molt. She has now appeared to be in a death curl. Yesterday evening, I very gently nudged one of her legs and she changed from curled position and ran into the corner and sat back down. This morning i tried again and she is not moving at all.

Appreciate any advice on if this is molting behavior, or if not what is the cause?





 

KezyGLA

Arachnoking
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Yeah this doesnt look too good.Does that plastic enclosure have a vented top as well as having the vents on the sides? Humidity may be a factore here. It looks like a very dry enclosure.

The T looks near death. It looks extremely dehydrated as abdomen is shrivled.

I would wet half of that substrate. Can you take a pic of whole enclosure including the top lid pleas?
 

KezyGLA

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Flip the T on its back and slow and gently put droplets of water in the Ts mouth.
 

Hack Job

Arachnopeon
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Thank you for the quick responses.
Also, her abdomen was not shriveled like that until this morning. Her appearance and behavior have been normal until last night.





 

KezyGLA

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the enclosure here is the problem. Avics need perfect conditions pretty much as they are delicate. Especially the younger ones.

Any humidity in that enclosure will be lost straight away through the top.

If I had an Avic in that enclosure I would sit the enclosure on its side to allow more height. I would drill a few holes at the back (formerly bottom). and i would sellotape the front (formerly top) all over apart from the sides of lid and hatch opening. This would keep more humidity in the enclosure.

What temperatures are you keeping it at? Do you use a Heat mat/bulb?
 

KezyGLA

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I'm sure someone with an Avic and keeping it in similar enclosure will chime in soon.
 

Hack Job

Arachnopeon
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What temperatures are you keeping it at? Room temp, ~77F
Do you use a Heat mat/bulb? No

It is surprising the speed that this has happened as yesterday she was fine. We are going to have a brokenhearted little girl - she will have lost 2 T's in the past couple of months...this avic and an OBT sling that died during molt. She still has a B smithi (juvenile) and a mature G rosea that are both thriving.
 

KezyGLA

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77 is fine and I'm glad you don't have a bulb.

However, I am almost certain it is an issue of humidity. As I say they can be delicate. It could have lasted a for a while in dry conditions and then just died over an hour or so. We can't really help so much. It is not easy to see a Tarantulas symptoms. The conditions may have been affecting your T for a while and you might not have seen it and has suddenly started to pass or may have already.

Let us know how the droplets of water technique is going. Also, cover the lid with wrapping film and moisten half of the enclosure for the meantime.

I hope it pulls through man :(
 

Vanessa

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Unfortunately, those Kritter Keeper enclosures let a lot of the humidity escape from them. Avics are the most delicate of the beginner's species and they are less forgiving than the hardier terrestrials. Many people suggest that new comers hold off on their first avic until they have quite a bit of experience with terrestrials. Avics are usually very calm, and are so gorgeous, but they do require a fair bit more research than the other beginner species.
Having holes in the side, as opposed to the top, of an avic's enclosure is far more successful. Holes in the sides ensures air flow without allowing all the humidity to escape. That water dish would have been sufficient had the lid not allowed the humidity to escape.
There are lots of posts here of how people have successfully housed their avics in case you get another one in the future. Some people have been able to rig up a KK for an arboreal, but people will suggest that they be kept strictly for terrestrials for the most part.
 

KezyGLA

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They can be successfully kept in KK or ET enclosures if put on their sides and modified by making holes for cross ventilation and using thin acrylic sheet or tape to cover the lid(front).

@Austin S. may be able to give a few pointers. In this link you can see their KK/ET enclosures on their sizes on the shelf in the top left picture. http://arachnoboards.com/gallery/part-of-the-tarantula-room.34939/

They are much cheaper than other enclosures and if modified correctly can house an Avic no problem.
 

viper69

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I own and raise many different Avic species and localities (scientifically non-described species of Avics).

In short, no one is going to be able to tell you what happened to your T for sure. It is definitely NOT molting behavior, nor was it your temperature. They are tropical after all.

If
you kept a water bowl in there with fresh water all the time, I'd find it unlikely, though not impossible, your T died of deydration. The death curl can result from a number of other issues that are not hydration related. I cannot tell if your Ts abdomen is shriveled like a raisin OR is just small given the size of the T. I'd expect a healthy Avic to have a larger abdominal size. I suspect this is because you haven't fed it enough.

It's true Avics are more delicate, but they are most delicate when they are 0.5"-1.0/1.5" in diagonal leg span. Once an Avic reaches 2" in diagonal leg span, they are much more resilient, though not as resilient as say a B. smithi to husbandry errors.

At her size, I would have fed her as much as she would eat. One cricket a week at that size is not enough in my experience. They are still growing significantly at that size generally speaking.

While I would have provided a more arboreal design of container, such as putting that KK on its end, that by itself, nor the large amount of venting would cause your T to die. By the looks of the picture and KK, it certainly didn't die of moist/stuffy air that WILL kill any Avic regardless of age/size.

I've raised Avics with a bit more of a moist substrate, but primarily raise Avics with a dry substrate and a water bowl with a good amount of ventilation. Given the size of your T and the size of the KK, your T would not have a health related issue due to the KKs orientation.

Even when a T is in a death curl, they sometimes have enough energy to do a "flight" response and get the heck out of Dodge City, I've seen it myself.

I'm sure your T is dead or almost dead at this point.

All you can do to be sure, is see if you can turn your T on its back, and add some water drop wise to its mouth. Sometimes they can be rescued this way if it's a dehydration issue.

Should you decide to get another Avic (A. avic or A. metallica are the best beginner Avic choices, get one that is at least 2", and BEFORE you do, read my post at this AB link, if you have questions come back and ask ;)

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/avicularia-husbandry.282549/#post-2461399


the enclosure here is the problem
Not necessarily. I don't believe that to be the case here.

Avics are usually very calm
There are many Avic species that are not calm. A. metallica is very calm though. A. geroldi isn't for example, nor is A. versicolor too flightly/jumpy. But it may depend on what you and I think are calm, a subjective term. All my Avics, in fact all my Ts are calm when they are left alone to walk around by themselves in their home ;)
 
Last edited:

Vanessa

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant A. avic, which is the species that is in question.
 

Haksilence

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant A. avic, which is the species that is in question.
You assume, unless you can identify between species of avicularia by photo. Which be a miraculous tallent
 

Vanessa

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You assume, unless you can identify between species of avicularia by photo. Which be a miraculous tallent
No, I absolutely did not assume. The original post clearly specifies an A. avicularia. My miraculous talent is paying attention.
 

Crone Returns

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What temperatures are you keeping it at? Room temp, ~77F
Do you use a Heat mat/bulb? No

It is surprising the speed that this has happened as yesterday she was fine. We are going to have a brokenhearted little girl - she will have lost 2 T's in the past couple of months...this avic and an OBT sling that died during molt. She still has a B smithi (juvenile) and a mature G rosea that are both thriving.
Hi. I would never want an OBT for a child. They're too fast, defensive and have too potent venom. Please stick to NWs -- new world Ts. And don't give up on Ts. Maybe you could get them from reputable dealers. Check out here on the classifieds. I've bought from a member here and have healthy Ts.
Ask all questions. Good luck.
 

Haksilence

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No, I absolutely did not assume. The original post clearly specifies an A. avicularia. My miraculous talent is paying attention.
:D woops, I had too many tabs open. I was just reading another post where it was just "pink toe this" "pink toe that"
 

Poec54

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As small as it's abdomen, and with an open top, I think dehydration was the culprit. There's no microclimate, and houses are very dry. Avic are fairly hardy, but only within a narrow range of conditions, which is why so many people lose their first one or two.

OBT's are not suitable for any child, fast and defensive with a potent bite; they're a popular subject for tests of courage by some wishing to prove their manliness.
 

Chris LXXIX

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they're a popular subject for tests of courage by some wishing to prove their manliness.
True. That's a sad thing for me, because, overall, I seriously consider P.murinus as an amazing Theraphosidae. Of course the myth behind, combined with cheap prices, easy breeding therefore available always, didn't helped.
 

Chris LXXIX

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OBT's are not suitable for any child, fast and defensive with a potent bite;
Except from Afghanistan kids, that played "Cowboys VS Indians" with real .357 Magnum that not even old good Charles Bronson :cigar:

I suppose the (in)famous "P.terror" is a suitable pet for them uh
 
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