Help me save my P. subfusca and E. murinus!!!

Misty Day

Arachnobaron
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Any updates on the pretty girl? Hoping for the best, she's very lucky to have fallen into your care.
 

MrsHaas

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So, I gave the sub water and have left her be a few days... I haven't yet checked on her but The last time I saw her she was in pretty bad shape. I will update tonight when I come home and check on her again.... I feel pretty confident that eventually she will die. Probably sooner than later sadly .
 

MrsHaas

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Update:

Now one of her fangs is sticking straight up (I tried to move it w a qtip but it's like cemented there and her mouth parts are no longer coordinated.

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She still is shaking like a leaf - similar to someone w Parkinson's.

I gave her water and put her back in the closet. We'll see how she is in the morning... :nurse::depressed:
 
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MrsHaas

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Fingers crossed for her!
Thank you... I'm crossing my fingers and toes as well

Either she's stuck in a molt or her nervous system is fried or both...

So I need opinions, should I just put her down? Or is it realistic even to keep trying...
 

KezyGLA

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She is still going which is a great sign. It seems she is determined to get through it.

You have done a great job. Most don't make it nearly this far.

I will cross my toes too :D
 

KezyGLA

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Thank you... I'm crossing my fingers and toes as well

Either she's stuck in a molt or her nervous system is fried or both...

So I need opinions, should I just put her down? Or is it realistic even to keep trying...

I'm stumped. I'm not sure what else you can do. Although, I know Ts can feel stressed/nervous but I'm not sure that they feel pain, well not like us humans do anyway. So I guess you could wait to see if anyone else can suggest something.

If out of options and no sign of change then you may just have to put her down
 

REEFSPIDER

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This is my favorite of the genus Poecilotheria, sending positive vibes your way @MrsHaas imo you have done all you can do at this point. But I would not put her down. I'm an optimist so I would personally keep her until she showed no more signs of life. Bless you for trying as hard as you did with this t.
 

G. pulchra

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Thank you... I'm crossing my fingers and toes as well

Either she's stuck in a molt or her nervous system is fried or both...

So I need opinions, should I just put her down? Or is it realistic even to keep trying...
I'm not a vet, but I personally think her nervous system is fried from heat over exposure.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion here, but I would put her down. People say that they don't suffer, but I'm not sure that's proven. Again, just my opinion here.
 

Blue Jaye

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@MrsHaas after talking with you today and going over what you have posted. I've givin it lots of thought after talking with you. Still wavering with what I have to say. I will alway opt to not give up till she does in most cases.
But if her mouth parts aren't working and she can't drink or eat she will loose fuel to fight. In the case of her smelling a bit. Could be two reasons. She can't clean herself or she's starting to foul. If you are changing the towels and cleaning the tub then it's her. So glad I asked you to give her a niff. While I don't think they have feels. They are capable of know when they are struggling. Like being caught under a rock and having to struggle their way out (simply survival ) and with that could come a type of panic. I could be totally off here but it makes sense.
My thought is its time. I'm terribly sorry to say that sweets I really am. But if you think there's a chance in hell she will pull through and your heart can handle it. I'm right there with you to help all I can.
 

MrsHaas

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@MrsHaas after talking with you today and going over what you have posted. I've givin it lots of thought after talking with you. Still wavering with what I have to say. I will alway opt to not give up till she does in most cases.
But if her mouth parts aren't working and she can't drink or eat she will loose fuel to fight. In the case of her smelling a bit. Could be two reasons. She can't clean herself or she's starting to foul. If you are changing the towels and cleaning the tub then it's her. So glad I asked you to give her a niff. While I don't think they have feels. They are capable of know when they are struggling. Like being caught under a rock and having to struggle their way out (simply survival ) and with that could come a type of panic. I could be totally off here but it makes sense.
My thought is its time. I'm terribly sorry to say that sweets I really am. But if you think there's a chance in hell she will pull through and your heart can handle it. I'm right there with you to help all I can.
If she's panicking and therefore scared, I do not want her to agonize anymore. I'll wait til tomorrow. If she's still the same or worse, I will give here some cricket guts (I guess as a last meal) and take her out for some sun and fresh air and then... I guess... Do the deed........ :depressed: :link: :lurking:
 

Jeff23

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I have no idea what I am talking about on this subject, but I remember in the Tarantula keeper's guide a paragraph where it mentions a spider stuck in a molt. Of course I think the one mentioned was an obvious situation where the visual was clear. I suppose even experts on this forum are struggling to determine if yours is possibly stuck in some molt situation.

But anyway the short paragraph in the book mentions that the tarantula was cooled down in a refrigerated situation where the person then used tools to help remove the molt. The spider was then gradually warmed back up to normal temperatures. But this would be not only complex to know where to do what on the spider much less the pain of knowing you are doing something to an animal you love without any experience in doing it in the past.

One has to wonder whether it is better to relieve the spider of its condition versus rolling the dice on a procedure with lots of unknowns. And of course the condition may not even be related to molt (overheat damage). It is a tough decision.

Best of luck to you and everyone is supporting you on whatever decisions you decide to make.
 

louise f

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What @Blue Jaye wrote makes perfect sense to me. And @MrsHaas you really done a great job here, you`ve done all that you possible can do, dont go blame yourself if you decide to put her down.

Whatever you decide I`m with you. Happy thoughts, hugs and <3<3
 

Blue Jaye

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If she's panicking and therefore scared, I do not want her to agonize anymore. I'll wait til tomorrow. If she's still the same or worse, I will give here some cricket guts (I guess as a last meal) and take her out for some sun and fresh air and then... I guess... Do the deed........ :depressed: :link: :lurking:
Not necessarily scared. So don't feel bad. It's more of a basic need to survive and if you struggle and can't get anywhere it is possible there is a kind of panic. Just basic instincts of survival. You have done a fantastic job with so much heart. It's an unfortunate circumstance that you hung in there and gained some knowledge and insight on how to help in the future. Sending you much love @MrsHaas.
 

Leonardo the Mage

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@MrsHaas You have done so much for this girl, and you've held on for longer than anyone else on the boards would have. Do what you think is best.
With the work you have already done with both the Sub and the murines, we have a bounty of new information that will likely save the lives of other Ts in the future. With this thread, others who have spiders that are unable to live under normal conditions will be able to save their little ones.
Thank you.
 
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Jeff23

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I have no idea what I am talking about on this subject, but I remember in the Tarantula keeper's guide a paragraph where it mentions a spider stuck in a molt. Of course I think the one mentioned was an obvious situation where the visual was clear. I suppose even experts on this forum are struggling to determine if yours is possibly stuck in some molt situation.

But anyway the short paragraph in the book mentions that the tarantula was cooled down in a refrigerated situation where the person then used tools to help remove the molt. The spider was then gradually warmed back up to normal temperatures. But this would be not only complex to know where to do what on the spider much less the pain of knowing you are doing something to an animal you love without any experience in doing it in the past.

One has to wonder whether it is better to relieve the spider of its condition versus rolling the dice on a procedure with lots of unknowns. And of course the condition may not even be related to molt (overheat damage). It is a tough decision.

Best of luck to you and everyone is supporting you on whatever decisions you decide to make.
I hope my post above wasn't interpreted wrong. By no means would I insinuate that anybody should perform surgery on their T. I don't think I could do it, but I have never been in this situation before either. When I wrote this post I was in the middle of a 20 hour airline flight trip and had spent 7 hours on a flight with too much time on my hands and the Tarantula Keeper's Guide in Kindle form.:wacky::bored::eek:

At this point regardless of what happens, I think the best care possible has been done for the T. This has also been a big learning experience for me. I recommend all new users to read several threads of this sort. It is never a thrill to read about someone's struggles with T's, but I absolutely feel it will make a beginner more settled and focused on what to do when it one day does happen.
 

MrsHaas

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@MrsHaas You have done so much for this girl, and you've held on for longer than anyone else on the boards would have. Do what you think is best.
With the work you have already done with both the Sub and the murines, we have a bounty of new information that will likely save the lives of other Ts in the future. With this thread, others who have spiders that are unable to live under normal conditions will be able to save their little ones.
Thank you.
This is really touching, thank you. I really do hope that my doings have given fellow hobbiests out there new information that can be used if they come across a similar situation. It's surely not an easy circumstance to find yourself in, and it's one that cannot be prepared for - sadly, only experiences like mine can lead to new knowledge.

I am still torn btw putting her down and trying to keep going - the only part that bothers me, however, is that she is "struggling" and therefore could be "panicking." I myself deal with anxiety and I would never want to keep an animal stuck in a state of panic.

I am going to check on her again tonight and I'll update with the verdict.
 

MrsHaas

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I hope my post above wasn't interpreted wrong. By no means would I insinuate that anybody should perform surgery on their T. I don't think I could do it, but I have never been in this situation before either. When I wrote this post I was in the middle of a 20 hour airline flight trip and had spent 7 hours on a flight with too much time on my hands and the Tarantula Keeper's Guide in Kindle form.:wacky::bored::eek:

At this point regardless of what happens, I think the best care possible has been done for the T. This has also been a big learning experience for me. I recommend all new users to read several threads of this sort. It is never a thrill to read about someone's struggles with T's, but I absolutely feel it will make a beginner more settled and focused on what to do when it one day does happen.
No offense taken or anything of the sort. However, I cannot determine whether or not she is in fact stuck in a molt and, therefore, I would not want to perform surgery; there is still a chance she may have just been fried from the heat. I don't want to go all mad scientist on her in her present condition, especially if there's a good chance "surgery" would end as nothing more than an experiment gone horribly wrong.

However, I do wonder if maybe, once she is deceased (whether by my hand or nature's) if I should try to see - for knowledge's sake - if she was in fact stuck in a molt. Would anyone be interested in me performing a rudimentary "autopsy" - and if so, what questions might others have/ what i should look for??

At this point, if she can help the hobby, I'm all for investigating.
 
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