HELP !!!! avic avic might be dead idk

YungRasputin

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I’m sure it is as they are from humid areas.

I haven’t seen anyone yet that keeps natural conditions, for Avics successfully.
I’ve often felt if froggers could successfully do so for frogs some dedicated T owner could as well.
Haven’t seen it yet, but hope I will at some
point.

I know someone that keeps seladonia under some humid conditions successfully though. How similar to their native habitat I didn’t. Inquire.
i wouldn’t be so bold as to say that i’ve perfectly replicated nature however within the confines of captivity, i think it’s relatively simple to provide a close approximation - still learning tho
 

light yagami

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let’s be careful here, it’s unlikely they travel the entire rainforest where they live. But your setup is fine in size. However you will have to make sure it eats, crickets etc hide very easily.



I’m sure it is as they are from humid areas.

I haven’t seen anyone yet that keeps natural conditions, for Avics successfully.
I’ve often felt if froggers could successfully do so for frogs some dedicated T owner could as well.
Haven’t seen it yet, but hope I will at some
point.

I know someone that keeps seladonia under some humid conditions successfully though. How similar to their native habitat I didn’t. Inquire.
sometimes she eats right from the chopsticks i use to pick them up , and if not she’s on it as soon as it drops. thank you all for the advice i will fix this ASAP!
 

moricollins

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I’ve often felt if froggers could successfully do so for frogs some dedicated T owner could as well.
Haven’t seen it yet, but hope I will at some
point
I've seen lots and lots of pictures of people's avicularia tanks that were more wet/humid than I keep my dart frog tanks. And that's for frogs that need to have humidity to keep themselves hydrated as they don't "drink" water as most animals do but absorb water through a patch on their undersides.

Ventilation, ventilation , ventilation.
 

light yagami

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This does NOT apply to members of the avic family...they are what is known as obligate arboreals.

humidity levels dont need to be anywhere and that's not where the op's focus needs to be, although I do agree that dampening the sub isnt a bad idea when its really dry..


Do not use ground hides for Avics...its akin to giving your dog an arboreal water dish......Avics dont use ground hides, and in fact, an avic spending too much time on the ground is a big red flag.

Add tall wider wood that provides a better, more stable platform for the t to hunt from and stretch out on.
okay. i made this sheet of leaves out of a fake plant and hot glue. i plan on looping it around the wood on the top right and then she will have that area completely hidden and to herself. but i am waiting 24 hours for the glue to settle or something, then washing it, then putting it in. good plan or no? 062D15E2-5154-43BB-811A-2F8349438DFE.jpeg 23121C17-066A-4763-A5F9-8AE2EBB29317.jpeg 86E4D3A9-09DE-4D21-A1C5-BCD454805A86.jpeg
 

cold blood

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i disagree with practice of keeping them in arid conditions - i think it’s possible to keep them humid without “SADS” occurring
I find this increasingly frustrating.....these misconceptions are getting out of control.:rolleyes:

Arid isnt the term anyone uses or should use, predominantly dry is....yet people always think this somehow means keep them like a GBB. I mean, even my last post said it would be a good idea to dampen the sub, yet that was apparently ignored for not fitting the pre-conception...lol.

OF COURSE they can be kept more humid, but historically this led to chasing humidity numbers, and to achieve these numbers, ventilation was almost always restricted.

Because ventilation can be tricky, its hard to always know exactly the provided airflow of a particular enclosure as its invisible...keeping them on the dry side just makes for a safer situation as ventilation is less critical when things are dry than when they are damp. There is absolutely a finer line a keeper has to walk when they are kept more humid, but it really does all boil down to the quality of the ventilation that the enclosure offers .
 

Dorifto

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Because ventilation can be tricky, its hard to always know exactly the provided airflow of a particular enclosure as its invisible...keeping them on the dry side just makes for a safer situation as ventilation is less critical when things are dry than when they are damp.
Or just the opposite too, keeping them on the dry side, can expose them to external dry conditions faster.

To keep things humid (acceptable levels), we don't need to keep the substrate like a fish pond, that's another misconception, simply giving A BIT of moisture is enough to counteract most cases of external dryness. To know if one is exceeding on the moisture level is as simple as watching how long it takes to dry. If it takes too long, one, or you have a very poor ventilation, which is bad, or two, you live in a very humid conditions. For those cases, it's better to keep them on the drier side (not dry). If the moisture evaporates too quickly, or your conditions are too dry or you have a looot of ventilation and the cimate isn't so humid. In those cases, better to control the moisture more often. It's not the quantity, but the frequency you do it. Adding too much to last longer IS NOT RECOMMENDABLE AND CAN BE LETHAL.

PS: mods you should offer a half agree pin 🤣🤣🤣

PS2: GBB husbandry is a bit funny too. Even if they come from a very xeric area (very low precipitations), their climate is pretty humid (they live surrounded by water). This looks like makes people's head to explode 🤣🤣🤣

Humid necessarily doesn't equal to moist substrate!!!

So under our care we should keep an eye on that too. I'm not saying to keep them moist... 😉
 

viper69

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I've seen lots and lots of pictures of people's avicularia tanks that were more wet/humid than I keep my dart frog tanks. And that's for frogs that need to have humidity to keep themselves hydrated as they don't "drink" water as most animals do but absorb water through a patch on their undersides.

Ventilation, ventilation , ventilation.
Agreed, my response to see a natural setup would need ventilation. I thought that was implied.
 

Dorifto

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@viper69

A simple search of their habitat would change our perception between soil type and their humidity

This is a simple resume of their habitat:

Climate Paraguaná
Paraguaná has the semi-arid climate prevailing. It is warm to hot all year round and trees don't grow here because of the drought. It consists mainly of sand with grasses and sometimes shrubs. The average annual temperature for Paraguaná is 28° degrees and there is about 453 mm of rain in a year. It is dry for 109 days a year with an average humidity of 80% and an UV-index of 7.

-------


Far from being a dry species, very humid indeed.
 

viper69

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@viper69

A simple search of their habitat would change our perception between soil type and their humidity

This is a simple resume of their habitat:

Climate Paraguaná
Paraguaná has the semi-arid climate prevailing. It is warm to hot all year round and trees don't grow here because of the drought. It consists mainly of sand with grasses and sometimes shrubs. The average annual temperature for Paraguaná is 28° degrees and there is about 453 mm of rain in a year. It is dry for 109 days a year with an average humidity of 80% and an UV-index of 7.

-------


Far from being a dry species, very humid indeed.
I'm not sure what of your point? I know they come from humid areas. I also know humid areas are not necessarily soaking wet. I've been to both rain forest, and "dry forest" as the locals called it. Both were humid, and both had nice air flow, unlike most tank setups.

You lost me man.
 

Dorifto

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I'm not sure what of your point? I know they come from humid areas. I also know humid areas are not necessarily soaking wet. I've been to both rain forest, and "dry forest" as the locals called it. Both were humid, and both had nice air flow, unlike most tank setups.

You lost me man.
Noooo I miss you already 🤣🤣🤣

Your thinking pin left me confuse, like if you were thinking about, so I give you a brief explanation, just in case, nothing else!

If you were aware of that, much better! 😉 but a lot of people struggle differentiating that dry soil doesn't equal to dry air. Same with the air, you don't need a swamp to have an humid environment.
 

YungRasputin

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I find this increasingly frustrating.....these misconceptions are getting out of control.:rolleyes:
mea culpa 🙏

Arid isnt the term anyone uses or should use, predominantly dry is....yet people always think this somehow means keep them like a GBB.
i am confused as to why a particular term is being rejected and substituted for the definition of said word

I mean, even my last post said it would be a good idea to dampen the sub, yet that was apparently ignored for not fitting the pre-conception...lol.
i do think there is a misconception surrounding arid and what this means in the wild and in terrariums - of course arid biomes experience some precipitation and have some air moisture irrespective of it being “predominately dry” - i think making sure desert species experience infrequentair moisture is important and beneficial in this respect but i understand that this would be a finer point in husbandry

OF COURSE they can be kept more humid, but historically this led to chasing humidity numbers, and to achieve these numbers, ventilation was almost always restricted.
i agree that’s bad but i think there’s been some good and reliable gauges to come out, they’re just tools and it’s not something to be relied upon entirely, particularly if you have older or cheaper gauges

i think “eyeballing” it and using critical thinking is also important as well as other things, like establishing base ambient humidity per your locale and factoring in this as well eg: WV is a sub-tropical biome so i have to be mindful of the base ambient humidity when considering what to do for X species

Because ventilation can be tricky, its hard to always know exactly the provided airflow of a particular enclosure as its invisible...keeping them on the dry side just makes for a safer situation as ventilation is less critical when things are dry than when they are damp. There is absolutely a finer line a keeper has to walk when they are kept more humid, but it really does all boil down to the quality of the ventilation that the enclosure offers
i think ventilation systems are important for both tropical and desert species and also can be used a tool and method of control for achieving a particular thing in an enclosure

for tropical species like A. avicularia, i like to have loads of ventilation and cocofiber heavy mixture (because of how it gives up moistures quickly)

i use both of these factors in combination with consistent light misting which raises the relative humidity significantly however at the same time, the substrate doesn’t remain damp, it dries out rather quickly given ample ventilation and cocofiber heavy substrate

i’ve found in this way i can maintain tropical humidity levels while bypassing the problems which led to “SADS” occurring - its more time intensive but still tho

i think the big thing we can agree on is that people in the past have interpreted “high humidity” or humidity techniques in general as meaning closing off/sacrificing ventilation, which in correct - my argument is the opposite of that mindset insomuch as wide ventilation is absolutely critical to being able to achieve a tropical humidity *range*
 

viper69

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sometimes she eats right from the chopsticks i use to pick them up ,
Just noticed this-- they don't eat from chopsticks in the wild. Why are you doing this, great way for the T to run up and out of the tank, maybe fall and die. Also good way to chip/break a fang/fangs.

Just drop them in, there is NO reason for spoon feeding a capable, ambush predator. They have been doing this for millions of years, they sure as hell don't need our help. :lol:
 

light yagami

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Just noticed this-- they don't eat from chopsticks in the wild. Why are you doing this, great way for the T to run up and out of the tank, maybe fall and die. Also good way to chip/break a fang/fangs.

Just drop them in, there is NO reason for spoon feeding a capable, ambush predator. They have been doing this for millions of years, they sure as hell don't need our help. :lol:
ok what about the cover i made tho
 

cold blood

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Or just the opposite too, keeping them on the dry side, can expose them to external dry conditions faster
Perfect example of my last post...The insinuation that people are saying to keep them like a GBB is factually incorrect....so your deduction is not accurate
without this [inaccurate] preconception.

Keeping them predominantly dry doesn't mean completely devoid of moisture. No one is suggesting to keep them arid as you consistently describe or insinuate. Drinking water should always be available, this means the dry conditions are not going to dehydrate your spider as it can simply drink.

Kept dry, a keeper, especially a new keeper, will have less potential trouble.

Humid necessarily doesn't equal to moist substrate!!!
Yeah, but for tarantula keeping it is precisely what you need to be concerned about...which is why I always say humidity isn't relevant.

i am confused as to why a particular term is being rejected and substituted for the definition of said word
Accuracy is the reason...one term is inaccurate, one isn't/

i agree that’s bad but i think there’s been some good and reliable gauges to come out
Gauge reliability has little to do with it, the gauges are measuring something completely irrelevant to keeping ts...ts cannot get moisture from the air.
i think ventilation systems are important for both tropical and desert species
Its not, its really only important for avics and ts that are moisture dependent...for ts kept dry, ventilation isn't very important and they can be kept with minimal ventilation..
 
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Dorifto

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Perfect example of my last post...The insinuation that people are saying to keep them like a GBB is factually incorrect....so your deduction is not accurate
without this [inaccurate] preconception.

Keeping them predominantly dry doesn't mean completely devoid of moisture. No one is suggesting to keep them arid as you consistently describe or insinuate
I never insinuated that you suggest to keep them completely devoid of moisture. Simply that in some conditions, by keeping them dry, you (the person who keeps it) are inherently exposing them to evironments devoid of moisture.

For me, dry means no moisture, arid means no moisture on the substrate, a dry enclosure a enclosure without added moisture.

A dry enclosure doesn't necessarily mean that's devoided of moisture, because if that enclosure is kept in a humid environment (climate, house climate etc) that same humidity it's going to be in the enclosure too, unless you keep your T in enclosure made of silica balls of oooooverly dry substrate... But that same enclosure, it could be devoided of (enough) humidity in the air if it's kept in dry climates or conditions.

So for me, if someone adds moisture to the substrate is not keeping them dry, it could be on the driest side of the husbandry, but never dry. And whe should look at this from a novice perspective, where they usually follow our advices like facts

Drinking water should always be available, this means the dry conditions are not going to dehydrate your spider as it can simply drink.
How many times we saw a T unable to walk to reach their water dish because they were dehydrated? A lot. Having a water dish doesn't guarantee always that the T is going to be well hydrated. A water dish, it should be an addition to a proper husbandry to help prevent even more the dehydration cases.

Yeah, but for tarantula keeping it is precisely what you need to be concerned about...which is why I always say humidity isn't relevant
Unfortunatelly no. In hands of a experienced keeper yes. But a novice doesn't know to distinguish between a "stress" pose, death curl, molting position, grooming etc. So if it lives in a dry climate or conditions, and it's keeping it with the substrate dry, he/she is exposing it directly to the external dryness, increasing greatly the chances of having a dehydrated T, or a stuck in molt episode.

Now if he keeps it with a bit of moisture then yes, they will have less chances of having troubles, both in dry and humid environments. And I say a bit, not completely moist etc, because then it could be another completely different reason for having problems like suffocation etc in humid environments.



PS: I quoted the GBB thing because it was the most clear case of misconception between humidity and soil moisture. Not because you were suggesting to keep then arid or something similar 😉
 

cold blood

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I never insinuated that you suggest to keep them completely devoid of moisture. Simply that in some conditions, by keeping them dry, you (the person who keeps it) are inherently exposing them to evironments devoid of moisture.

For me, dry means no moisture, arid means no moisture on the substrate, a dry enclosure a enclosure without added moisture.

A dry enclosure doesn't necessarily mean that's devoided of moisture, because if that enclosure is kept in a humid environment (climate, house climate etc) that same humidity it's going to be in the enclosure too, unless you keep your T in enclosure made of silica balls of oooooverly dry substrate... But that same enclosure, it could be devoided of (enough) humidity in the air if it's kept in dry climates or conditions.

So for me, if someone adds moisture to the substrate is not keeping them dry, it could be on the driest side of the husbandry, but never dry. And whe should look at this from a novice perspective, where they usually follow our advices like facts



How many times we saw a T unable to walk to reach their water dish because they were dehydrated? A lot. Having a water dish doesn't guarantee always that the T is going to be well hydrated. A water dish, it should be an addition to a proper husbandry to help prevent even more the dehydration cases.


Unfortunatelly no. In hands of a experienced keeper yes. But a novice doesn't know to distinguish between a "stress" pose, death curl, molting position, grooming etc. So if it lives in a dry climate or conditions, and it's keeping it with the substrate dry, he/she is exposing it directly to the external dryness, increasing greatly the chances of having a dehydrated T, or a stuck in molt episode.

Now if he keeps it with a bit of moisture then yes, they will have less chances of having troubles, both in dry and humid environments. And I say a bit, not completely moist etc, because then it could be another completely different reason for having problems like suffocation etc in humid environments.



PS: I quoted the GBB thing because it was the most clear case of misconception between humidity and soil moisture. Not because you were suggesting to keep then arid or something similar 😉
I respectfully disagree
 
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