I see that most if not all people extract the male from the females tank to prevent cannibalism. I'm wondering if anybody has ever left a male in with the female after copulation and observed coexistence. I have an Avicularia and I've read that they exhibit cannibalism less frequently than other species. Do you think that if I put a male into my female tank and then they mated, and if I left them there afterwards I would have one less T?
Has anybody ever kept a male with a female in the same tank after successful coitus?
- Thread starter Arthropod
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I don't have personal experience with leaving an Avic with another male, but I've seen plenty of male Avics getting munched during pairings to believe that it happens to a similar extent as other species.
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i think id just remove him after you witness 'magic', i sure as hell am not the worlds best breeder, but this year has been good to me for my first, three eggsacks , i screwed two up cause im a moron , but ive tried to breed 7 times and have only lost one male a mm poecilotheria rufilata the other one took place on thanksgiving and the others molted
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I left the MM A. versicolor in with the female after mating. She was content to hide in her web whilst he stayed at the front of the tank. They obviously came across each other without issue and so I left him in there til the female laid a sac. He had weakend by this time as he wasnt a fresh male and soon died. Unfortunately the sac went bad so I lost the lot.
I left a MM P. cambridgei in with the female for a few weeks without issues. Had a subsequent sac. Interesting the enclosure also had slings from the previous mating.
I left a MM P. rufilata with a female until he recently died after at least 8 months together. The female webbed over him and seemed to mourn his death. She moulted out a week after he died.
I've left various pokies together for over a week, sometimes over a month without issues. And Ive also left P. murinus together without issues and got successful sacs from both the OBT and pokies. I currently have a pair of P. irminia that have been together for approx 1 month. Im sure Ive had other examples too.
However, Ive also had other instances where things havent gone so well, including an OBT, P. irminia, L. violaceopes, C. shioedtei.
As a rule I'd suggest removing the male after successful insertions, its common practise to try for further insertions but it could be argued this isnt necessary. Risking the MM suggests you don't have another breeder to hand him on to as I'd always opt for that in preference. If the female decides the male is a threat to a possible sac you might lose the male so I usually remove the male if I see obvious signs of her being gravid or preparing for a sac.
I left a MM P. cambridgei in with the female for a few weeks without issues. Had a subsequent sac. Interesting the enclosure also had slings from the previous mating.
I left a MM P. rufilata with a female until he recently died after at least 8 months together. The female webbed over him and seemed to mourn his death. She moulted out a week after he died.
I've left various pokies together for over a week, sometimes over a month without issues. And Ive also left P. murinus together without issues and got successful sacs from both the OBT and pokies. I currently have a pair of P. irminia that have been together for approx 1 month. Im sure Ive had other examples too.
However, Ive also had other instances where things havent gone so well, including an OBT, P. irminia, L. violaceopes, C. shioedtei.
As a rule I'd suggest removing the male after successful insertions, its common practise to try for further insertions but it could be argued this isnt necessary. Risking the MM suggests you don't have another breeder to hand him on to as I'd always opt for that in preference. If the female decides the male is a threat to a possible sac you might lose the male so I usually remove the male if I see obvious signs of her being gravid or preparing for a sac.
madamoisele
Arachnosquire
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This is very interesting to me as I am conducting experiments on whether T's respond to affection and love. Can you please elaborate on your female T's behavior in this instance in as much detail as possible? I am keenly interested.
Well, lets first dispel the human aspects of emotion within a tarantula. The brain is very small and as most species are not communal the idea of social interaction is often met with failure. Ive had a community of P. cambridgei which is still running on a small scale where the female exists with juveniles from Aug '09 and now there's a few slings from Aug '10. The largest of the juveniles was eaten by the female - certainly no love there!
The P. rufilata, known to be a communal species, were put to gether prior to May '10 and I observed mating rituals but not an insertion. They were kept in a large enclosure which Im guessing is about 30" high by 18" x 18" with plenty of branches and 2 cork hides. The temps were raised to 80s at ground level. The size of the male was about 6" and the female about 8".
Despite dry and wet seasons that I provided the female did not show signs of getting bigger or being gravid. They were often found together but not in the conventional parralel pose that we often see with pokie communities.
When the male died on the substrate the female joined him and I was a little worried about her health because she stayed near him for so long. This made it difficult to remove the dead body so I kept the enclosure dry to discourage pest issues. Now that Ive looked at my records it seems she stayed with him for 8 days, gradually webbing over him and moulted right next to him. She stayed a further few days but returned too. Today I see she's not with him but I can't see where she is. But I'm now going to remove the male and give the glass a good clean while Im at it, the whole of the glass front is removable which isnt always the safest way to gain access
The P. rufilata, known to be a communal species, were put to gether prior to May '10 and I observed mating rituals but not an insertion. They were kept in a large enclosure which Im guessing is about 30" high by 18" x 18" with plenty of branches and 2 cork hides. The temps were raised to 80s at ground level. The size of the male was about 6" and the female about 8".
Despite dry and wet seasons that I provided the female did not show signs of getting bigger or being gravid. They were often found together but not in the conventional parralel pose that we often see with pokie communities.
When the male died on the substrate the female joined him and I was a little worried about her health because she stayed near him for so long. This made it difficult to remove the dead body so I kept the enclosure dry to discourage pest issues. Now that Ive looked at my records it seems she stayed with him for 8 days, gradually webbing over him and moulted right next to him. She stayed a further few days but returned too. Today I see she's not with him but I can't see where she is. But I'm now going to remove the male and give the glass a good clean while Im at it, the whole of the glass front is removable which isnt always the safest way to gain access
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I cohab males and females of almost every species I breed here.This can be for anywhere from 1-2 days to a week or more depending on my schedule and what else I have to breed.I use a large bin or tank and inside this will add the females enclosure and then release the male into the bin.I just let them do there thing on there own terms and it usually go's well!
When using a large tank or breeding box like this you give the male plenty of room to escape if the female tries to munch him!
Hope that helps!
-Chris
When using a large tank or breeding box like this you give the male plenty of room to escape if the female tries to munch him!
Hope that helps!
-Chris
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its hit or miss IMO
ive had 1.1 pairs cohabitate for everrrrrrr without problems given the tank is big enough.
examples:
-i had 2 MM regalis with my female for like 8-10 months, eventually the MMs died. but i would often find all three in the same cave. also the MMs would get....weird with each other.
-had a rufilata pair together for 6 months before th male died of age.
-have had MM balfouri in with females for 6months + with no issues. theyre such light eaters i honestly wish they'd eat the males, but usually the males kick around for ever and eventually get old (ive only had like two males out of maybe 6 or 7 get munched, and that was after being in the females cage for months and months)
-currently have xenesthis immanis together, going on maybe 3 months. male builds spermwebs all the time, eats great and is pretty much always in the females burrow. mind you the females burrow is 14"+ long and 6-7" deep, plenty of room for him to run.
i feel if you let your MM cohab with your female, its a coin toss. given enough time it probably will get eaten, but then again ive seen many examples of them cohabitating until death from just being old males. although i feel more often than not, they'll get eaten.
ive had 1.1 pairs cohabitate for everrrrrrr without problems given the tank is big enough.
examples:
-i had 2 MM regalis with my female for like 8-10 months, eventually the MMs died. but i would often find all three in the same cave. also the MMs would get....weird with each other.
-had a rufilata pair together for 6 months before th male died of age.
-have had MM balfouri in with females for 6months + with no issues. theyre such light eaters i honestly wish they'd eat the males, but usually the males kick around for ever and eventually get old (ive only had like two males out of maybe 6 or 7 get munched, and that was after being in the females cage for months and months)
-currently have xenesthis immanis together, going on maybe 3 months. male builds spermwebs all the time, eats great and is pretty much always in the females burrow. mind you the females burrow is 14"+ long and 6-7" deep, plenty of room for him to run.
i feel if you let your MM cohab with your female, its a coin toss. given enough time it probably will get eaten, but then again ive seen many examples of them cohabitating until death from just being old males. although i feel more often than not, they'll get eaten.
madamoisele
Arachnosquire
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Poxicator,
Thank you so very much for your detailed response. I am aware that T's cannot feel emotion the way humans can. My curiousity is whether they feel anything at all.
Noting your female's apparant "mourning" of the male is very interesting to me. There have been enough examples of "odd pairings" in nature and captivity situations that allow room for the idea that there might be some primitive level of attachment.
I've not kept any of my spiders communally, but I may look into it. I'm not sure if I'm ready for Pokies, though - my H. Lividium scares the crap out of me to the point that I'm giving it away to a friend.
Thank you so very much for your detailed response. I am aware that T's cannot feel emotion the way humans can. My curiousity is whether they feel anything at all.
Noting your female's apparant "mourning" of the male is very interesting to me. There have been enough examples of "odd pairings" in nature and captivity situations that allow room for the idea that there might be some primitive level of attachment.
I've not kept any of my spiders communally, but I may look into it. I'm not sure if I'm ready for Pokies, though - my H. Lividium scares the crap out of me to the point that I'm giving it away to a friend.
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I have done it with B. vagans. I left the male live with female for 3 months plus!
They would stay close to each other and even walk by each other with no problems. Often rest within 3 inches of each other for days on end.
They would stay close to each other and even walk by each other with no problems. Often rest within 3 inches of each other for days on end.
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If the male belongs to me, I co-hab pairs, sometimes for months. My 2nd Tapincuchenius violaceous sac was made while "papa" was still in the enclosure. I removed him as soon as I realized that mama had made the sac. After a few months most of the males end up as a snack. Diane
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I've kept males with the females in large and small enclosures successfully for months with the following:
Avicularia avicularia
Heterothele gabonensis
Heterothele villosella
Holothele incei
Holothele sp. NDS
Monocentropus balfouri
Pamphobeteus sp. Chicken Spider
The males usually stay close nearby or live in the same web/burrow with the female. Sometimes even staying in her burrow while she had an eggsac.
Avicularia avicularia
Heterothele gabonensis
Heterothele villosella
Holothele incei
Holothele sp. NDS
Monocentropus balfouri
Pamphobeteus sp. Chicken Spider
The males usually stay close nearby or live in the same web/burrow with the female. Sometimes even staying in her burrow while she had an eggsac.
BlackVenom
Arachnopeon
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Arthropod,
When I breed P. subfusca and P. regalis I left the males in with the females for over 2 months. I never witnessed any aggression towards one another which was not too surprising because this genus is known to be some what communal but I was still surprised to see how well they adapted/tolerated each other. One female looks very gravid and the other does not so IMO it had no real affect besides seeing the two of them together. now I have no first hand experience with avics but they too are known to be some what communal so it might work out but remember no matter what the male in any genus is still on the menu.
When I breed P. subfusca and P. regalis I left the males in with the females for over 2 months. I never witnessed any aggression towards one another which was not too surprising because this genus is known to be some what communal but I was still surprised to see how well they adapted/tolerated each other. One female looks very gravid and the other does not so IMO it had no real affect besides seeing the two of them together. now I have no first hand experience with avics but they too are known to be some what communal so it might work out but remember no matter what the male in any genus is still on the menu.
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My MM and female Vagans have been co-habiting in an enclosure for well over 2 months now - a few attempts at breeding in the beginning but I suspect she is not mature enough for the MM.
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I left my MM A. metallica with my female for about 4 months, probably would have been longer but he died of old age.