Handling old worlds

[FrDoc]

I'm very bothered with statements such as this as it leads one to believe the site as a whole takes a position on one topic. That is just not the case. Out of the 60 some-odd thousand registered members on this site, only a few are expressive in their disdain for handling and those few certainly do not speak for everyone. Although I agree for the most part with the rest of the points made in the post, handling can be accomplished safely for both the tarantula and the one holding it.

Handling a tarantula with any disposition takes a calm and confident demeanor on the part of the one attempting to hold it. One must also take the time to understand a tarantula's body language and be able to recognize when it has had enough and ready to be left alone. Attempting to work with or handle a tarantula needs to be done on the floor. In the event of a fall, the less distance between it and the floor the better. There are, of course, tarantulas that just can't be handled no matter what. Those quick to throw their front legs up and start striking are definitely not ones to even try with.

Okay, if we are going to present statements that bother us, then bear with me. If one has been on AB for more than a week, one is aware that this is a hotly debated issue. Consequently, I would think that a moderator, very respected for depth of knowledge and work in this area, would remain neutral even though they may have an opinion regarding the matter. However, if they did not remain neutral, I would hope their statements would be more precise, i.e, “...handling can be accomplished safely...”. It can be accomplished with precautions in place, but not safely. They are animals, and we cannot, as you are very well aware, anticipate what they may do. Consequently, there is always that danger. Exercise caution given your position here, because now, folks who engage in a practice that has inarguably no other benefit except, “Because I want to”, can point to you as an authority who stated this practice can be done safely.

 

[MikeofBorg]

I personally do not handle my Ts except for the rare occasions my MF A. avicularia Morph 6 walks out of her enclosure. She sometimes comes out when I clean up her poo messes. She is however a very docile and curious spider that has yet to bolt on me as a sling or adult. She is the exception rather than the rule for most arboreals; they seem very jumpy. If any of my Old World Ts get loose, which is very very very rare, I don't play with them. I own a C.lividus and P. rufilata. My C. lividus is always ready to bite no matter the disturbance be it my son stomping in the room etc. She escaped once up my right arm across my neck and down my left arm, and then up the wall. I do not ever want to experience that again. She happen to be in a very unusually docile mood that night. And all I was doing was picking up bolus with tongs with the top barely open. The went up the tongs and squeezed under the lid and that was it, off to the races. My P. rufilata is rather calm, but I don't trust it. I use tongs with a plastic funnel so it can't bolt up the tongs on me when cleaning. So far it has been rather like my Avic, but like I said I don't trust it considering the Poecilotheria genus overall have very potent venom compared to most Ts.

 

[Poonjab]

I personally do not handle my Ts except for the rare occasions my MF A. avicularia Morph 6 walks out of her enclosure. She sometimes comes out when I clean up her poo messes. She is however a very docile and curious spider that has yet to bolt on me as a sling or adult. She is the exception rather than the rule for most arboreals; they seem very jumpy. If any of my Old World Ts get loose, which is very very very rare, I don't play with them. I own a C.lividus and P. rufilata. My C. lividus is always ready to bite no matter the disturbance be it my son stomping in the room etc. She escaped once up my right arm across my neck and down my left arm, and then up the wall. I do not ever want to experience that again. She happen to be in a very unusually docile mood that night. And all I was doing was picking up bolus with tongs with the top barely open. The went up the tongs and squeezed under the lid and that was it, off to the races. My P. rufilata is rather calm, but I don't trust it. I use tongs with a plastic funnel so it can't bolt up the tongs on me when cleaning. So far it has been rather like my Avic, but like I said I don't trust it considering the Poecilotheria genus overall have very potent venom compared to most Ts.

Never hold your T’s. No exceptions.

 

[boina]

I'm very bothered with statements such as this as it leads one to believe the site as a whole takes a position on one topic. That is just not the case. Out of the 60 some-odd thousand registered members on this site, only a few are expressive in their disdain for handling and those few certainly do not speak for everyone. Although I agree for the most part with the rest of the points made in the post, handling can be accomplished safely for both the tarantula and the one holding it.

Handling a tarantula with any disposition takes a calm and confident demeanor on the part of the one attempting to hold it. One must also take the time to understand a tarantula's body language and be able to recognize when it has had enough and ready to be left alone. Attempting to work with or handle a tarantula needs to be done on the floor. In the event of a fall, the less distance between it and the floor the better. There are, of course, tarantulas that just can't be handled no matter what. Those quick to throw their front legs up and start striking are definitely not ones to even try with.

I said "People around here..." because that was exactly what he was experiencing and complaining about. I didn't say "All people" or "Everyone" or anything the like. Next time I'll mention that you - for some very weird reason - support handling.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Okay, if we are going to present statements that bother us, then bear with me. If one has been on AB for more than a week, one is aware that this is a hotly debated issue. Consequently, I would think that a moderator, very respected for depth of knowledge and work in this area, would remain neutral even though they may have an opinion regarding the matter. However, if they did not remain neutral, I would hope their statements would be more precise, i.e, “...handling can be accomplished safely...”. It can be accomplished with precautions in place, but not safely. They are animals, and we cannot, as you are very well aware, anticipate what they may do. Consequently, there is always that danger. Exercise caution given your position here, because now, folks who engage in a practice that has inarguably no other benefit except, “Because I want to”, can point to you as an authority who stated this practice can be done safely.

I always choose my words carefully and 'safely' is what I meant to say and I always mean what I say. We can agree to disagree on whether a tarantula can be handled safely and that is fine with me. But enough of the nonsense, if detail on how handling can be done safely is what you want, then here we go.

Lets use a visual aid for this discussion by way of a video of handling Stromatopelma calceatum from the Tarantupedia YouTube channel and break down why this guy doesn't get bitten or why the tarantula doesn't fall to its death. Lets just point out the obvious first. Stromatopelma calceatum is an arboreal tarantula and is better physically equipped to be off of the ground. Attempting to handle a fossorial tarantula is safer done on the floor. Same principles I will outline apply though.

While watching this video, keep the following points in mind.

- The guy is calm, collected, and confident the entire time the tarantula is being manipulated while on or off of his body.
- The tarantula is not being manipulated by the guy's hands or other body part. He is using what looks to be a long screwdriver to gently direct the tarantula to where he wants it to go.
- The whole time the tarantula is out of its enclosure it has ample space to run. Tarantulas are most quick to bite when they are cornered. If given enough space, they would rather flee or try to find a place to hide. An enclosure of any size is not ample space. Typically, a tarantula considers the entire enclosure as its territory and will defend it. When a tarantula is removed from its enclosure into open space though, they usually calm down a bit with the biting. There are exceptions and when those exceptions are encountered, an attempt to handle should never be made.
- And the last point I will make is probably the most important. Notice in the video the guy never forces that tarantula to do something it does not want to do? Yeah, don't ever try to force a tarantula to do something it doesn't want to do. If a tarantula goes in the wrong direction, let it, then try to guide it in the direction you need it to. Just don't forget that catch-cup in case things get out of hand. And don't ever grab at a tarantula with your hands, ever. When handling a tarantula, always guide it toward you and let it walk on you. One more time, never grab at a tarantula.

For the sake of saying so, I just didn't make this stuff up on the fly for the sake of making this post. Over the past 20 years I have been able to handle many different species of tarantulas of various dispositions, both arboreal and fossorial, by utilizing the above points.

I don't advocate handling and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Like working with any wild animal, there is always that risk of something going wrong but if one stops to think about a tarantula's behavior, handling can be done safely for both the human and spider.

 

[MikeofBorg]

Never hold your T’s. No exceptions.

I should have been more clear, sorry. I don't handle my Avic her except to get her back in her enclosure. And that is only when she comes out during maintenance; which isn't too often. Usually she just sits outside her tube web waiting for the giant hand and tongs to leave her house. Sometimes she will crawl outside onto the side of the enclosure so I coax her onto my hand and then place her gently back inside. That is as far as handling goes for me. I maybe handle her 10 seconds at most. My other Ts pretty much run to their hides when I open their enclosures except for my A. geniculata, B. hamorii and A. chalcodes; they pretty much just sit there and don't care what happens unless it is a cricket or roach. My two OWs are flighty (C. lividus and P. rufilata) and run to their hide//tube web at the slightest disturbance. And my A. seemanni is also a shy spider when I open its enclosure.

 

[cold blood]

don't advocate handling and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone

But you basically just did...and reccomend how to a completely inexperienced keeper.

I think recomending not to handle is offering a new keeper, the very best, most responsible advice possible...even if its not what they want to hear....learning often involves hearing things you dont want or expect to hear. Such advice is what will help an inexperienced keeper avoid what could be a catastrophic mistake or just lead them down the wrong path in the hobby.

There is literally nothing about handling any tarantulas that is in the best interest of the animal, or the hobby as a whole....nothing.

I see giving a new keeper handling pointers as akin to teaching a new driver how to do burnouts and doughnuts instead of teaching safe driving...its risky fun with zero redeeming qualities in the real world.

Wanna give a driver good advice, teach him/her to drive safely and responsibly....same goes for new t keepers...teach them good, responsible practices, not poor ones we dont even personally agree with.

JMO

 

[checkmate]

For anyone who disagrees with me giving him advice. He’s going to do it wether you agree with it or not. I’d prefer he does it in the safest manner possible, that results in the least amount of damage to both him and the T. At least that’s my take.

Agreed. Hope for the best (choose not to handle) but plan for the worst (choose to handle). I'd rather new keepers get proper handling advice than to imitate what they see on FB, IG, YT, etc.

 

[RezonantVoid]

But you basically just did...and reccomend how to a completely inexperienced keeper.

I think reccomending not to handle is offering a new keeper, the very best, most responsible advice possible...even if its not what they want to hear....learning often involves hearing things you dont want or expect to hear. Such advice is what will help an inexperienced keeper avoid what could be a catastrophic mistake or just lead them down the wrong path in the hobby.

There is literally nothing about handling any tarantulas that is in the best interest of the animal, or the hobby as a whole....nothing.

I see giving a new keeper handling pointers as akin to teaching a new driver how to do burnouts and doughnuts instead of teaching safe driving...its risky fun with zero redeeming qualities in the real world.

Wamna give a driver good advice, teach him/her to drive safely and responsibly....same goes for new t keepers...teach them good, responsible practices, not poor ones we dont even personally agree with.

JMO

I agree with every sentence of this, especially considering said new keeper is only 16 and dealing with dog killers

 

[EulersK]

There is literally nothing about handling any tarantulas that is in the best interest of the animal

My two cents, this about sums up the whole argument. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. Being a keeper of primarily NW terrestrials, I know for a fact that I can handle 75% of my collection. But I don't, because... why?

 

[viper69]

or why the tarantula doesn't fall to its death. Lets just point out the obvious first. Stromatopelma calceatum is an arboreal tarantula and is better physically equipped to be off of the ground

But arboreals can, and do, fall.

Like working with any wild animal, there is always that risk of something going wrong but if one stops to think about a tarantula's behavior, handling can be done safely for both the human and spider.

Until one's cherished pet falls or something and the new pet's name is called Splat.


Avics are a great example of something one shouldn't handle. They are nimble, faster than a human's reaction speed. As I've written on here many times over I in doing husbandry an Avic decided it was time to come out on his/her own. In doing that it shot across my arm, and promptly took a 5 ft drop off my arm. It was lucky, no injuries. Another time, perhaps a different outcome.

I would love to hold my Avics, but I know better.

 

[SonsofArachne]

Here we go again with the handling issue. I've been wondering lately why people insist on handling and the answer I came up with is boredom. Or more precisely boredom with your new pet. Notice you never see people that have been keeping for awhile suddenly decide they need to handle. No, it's the new owner who watched a bunch Youtube videos with all the interesting things the tarantulas are doing, not realizing that these are literally ALL the interesting things the tarantulas do, and that they spend most of their time sitting still, often completely hidden. So the owner gets bored with it and wants it to do something so they figure "I know, I'll take it out and handle it, that will be interesting". So, I'm just saying if you wanted a pet that's going to be doing something all the time, you picked the wrong one.

 

[MikeofBorg]

But arboreals can, and do, fall.



Until one's cherished pet falls or something and the new pet's name is called Splat.


Avics are a great example of something one shouldn't handle. They are nimble, faster than a human's reaction speed. As I've written on here many times over I in doing husbandry an Avic decided it was time to come out on his/her own. In doing that it shot across my arm, and promptly took a 5 ft drop off my arm. It was lucky, no injuries. Another time, perhaps a different outcome.

I would love to hold my Avics, but I know better.

My MF Avic Morph 6 is calm as can be and curious. She sometimes comes out during monthly cleaning and hangs on the side while I do my thing. I either encourage her back inside with a paint brush or if she is being stubborn I'll get her on my hand and back into the enclosure. I don't walk around with her or anything else, its just moving her 12 inches back inside her home.

My male Avic avic I could not do this. He was squirrely as could be. He rarely ever came out of his enclosure and would just ran back into his tube, or he ran laps on the back wall for 30 seconds. Once he got loose and was on the damn ceiling in seconds, had to get a step stool to get him back inside his house. It literally looked like he teleported when he was moving out. I couldn't track him with my eyes, that is for sure.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Let's face it though. No tarantula is going to enjoy tasty bass guitar licks within the confines of its enclosure. The acoustics are terrible in there. But this is the ONLY good reason to handle a tarantula.

 

[Swagg]

Let’s put it this way. If you had a dog, and every time you pet that dog it had a 50% chance of mauling you and a 50% chance of the dog falling over dead, would you stop petting the dog?

 

[MikeofBorg]

Let’s put it this way. If you had a dog, and every time you pet that dog it had a 50% chance of mauling you and a 50% chance of the dog falling over dead, would you stop petting the dog?

Depends on the potency of the dog's venom.

 

[viper69]

My MF Avic Morph 6 is calm as can be and curious. She sometimes comes out during monthly cleaning and hangs on the side while I do my thing. I either encourage her back inside with a paint brush or if she is being stubborn I'll get her on my hand and back into the enclosure. I don't walk around with her or anything else, its just moving her 12 inches back inside her home.

My male Avic avic I could not do this. He was squirrely as could be. He rarely ever came out of his enclosure and would just ran back into his tube, or he ran laps on the back wall for 30 seconds. Once he got loose and was on the damn ceiling in seconds, had to get a step stool to get him back inside his house. It literally looked like he teleported when he was moving out. I couldn't track him with my eyes, that is for sure.

There's always exceptions. The only species I own that comes out regularly on its own is my E sp Red. Everyone knows those little guys come out the moment the lid is lifted, I'm sure there are exceptions there too. The difference here is this species is extremely mellow.

But I wouldn't trust my versi, and def. not my AF minatrix- she's extremely fast.

Let’s put it this way. If you had a dog, and every time you pet that dog it had a 50% chance of mauling you and a 50% chance of the dog falling over dead, would you stop petting the dog?

I would never pet such an animal, not worth the risk.

 

[ShyDragoness]

Can yall let the op reply?

 

[RezonantVoid]

Can yall let the op reply?

In a sense i think they already have. They made a thread prior to this asking almost the same question just worded a bit differently, got very clear advice, and then then made this one. Unless they do come forth again, im pretty sure they are just gonna handle the thing anyway

 

[Kitara]

Can yall let the op reply?

How is anyone stopping them? They can reply just like anyone else can.