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- Jun 7, 2005
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- 592
I have kept T's for 25 plus years, and disagree that you can build "trust" with one. They are not domesticated, and act totally on instinct.
Yep agree with that. I loved Steve Irwin personally..but he did it all for conservation and preservation of species... not for bloody youtube... he was a professional... can't really compare him and his work to the work of 2 guys and a video camera laughing about it...
But whats the point?? If the T quietens down when its out of its environment its coz its not happy or comfortable... surely thats reason enough not to handle it?!
That is it right there my man (or..woman?).First and foremost of course would be what the individual T. you are dealing with is comfortable with in the interest of making sure that no harm comes to it. As none of us are T. psychics, this can only be determined from knowledge of the specific T. and correctly analyzing the T's posturing and attitude at the time.
we've already clarified that it's the conditioning aspect that might drive a T to become friendlier with a caring owner.I have kept T's for 25 plus years, and disagree that you can build "trust" with one. They are not domesticated, and act totally on instinct.
check out this thread:im still working my way to the S. subspinipes, dehani.... so far I havent had the balls to try that one.
hi. i'm the other "idiot" behind the videos. either on or behind the camera. name's mike, nice to meet everyone.Oh so you're the fool that handles all them spiders on cam?? Yea.. seen a few of your vids and hated every single one of them... for one.. you and your friend c it as a game, and as fun to p*ss the spider off and then handle it... That maculata girl (who's gorgeous) was frightened to death. They threat posture for a reason.. its to say go away, not to give us humans more reason to annoy them and make them look big and scary then let people see how cool we are for handling them... *yawns* Only people that know nothing about T's and their behaviour will say "omg you're so cool for handling them spiders!!!" People who really care for and keep T's (as i've noticed by the comments on the videos) will think its appalling and disgusting, like i do!
The maculata hasn't even got a suitable setup!!! It's a arboreal spider in a terrestrial tank with nothing but a water bowl..no hide, no nothing...
It's wrong!
I really do hope you get bitten! By somethin like a pokie that will do you some damage! (Pokie vid "this girl doesnt like the feel of skin" **i know lets make her walk on my arm!!** :wall: :wall: :evil:
People like you annoy me.. takin pleasure in purposely annoying a spider...you shouldn't be allowed 2 keep the poor things. If that was someone teasing a dog, or tricking a bear (e.g. bear dancing) there'd be laws against it or something legal done about it...... Its out of order.
I respect my T's for the beautiful, wild creatures that they are. All of mine live as naturally in captivity as they can (e.g. burrowers have plenty of substrate and arboreals have plenty of height and things to web on and hide in/behind) Other people should too...
it is not exactly a trust of the owner. it is more associating a new event with like, non-negative repercusions. it is like this Nat'l Geo article i was reading says beautifully, "the spider passes its life in hunger, uncertainty, fear, and trembling". but... they can do some kind of learning. the difference between the first time a tarantula with a good chemoreceptor suite in its feet walks on me and the tenth time is pretty dramatic. the first time i can barely get some stuff on to me. and by the time they are "used" to me they will walk on my skin with out any perceptible hesitation at all.while it's not wise to handle such arachnids with a predetermined manner, some T's that are labeled as "aggressive" can actually build up a trust with their owner. i've seen a few photos of owners holding their baboons or cobalt blues. i suppose it kinda depends on how much experience one's had and how long they have owned the spider. however, there is not a single T that can be too predictable. any T, no matter how docile it may seem, has the potential to bite and inject venom. it's not really wise to handle any T, but if you want to take the risk and do so, that's your choice. we all have different reactions to the venom and sometimes the spider may just "dry bite," but i've heard it just feels like a splinter or bee sting.
bold mineThat is incorrect...a spider will not learn to trust a person..it's not in their nature... They don't have the brain capacity to remember things like that (no offence spidies! )while it's not wise to handle such arachnids with a predetermined manner, some T's that are labeled as "aggressive" can actually build up a trust with their owner.
It's experience (and a bit of stupidity) when it comes to handling things like lividum, P. murinus etc And i personally wouldnt do it..too many risks to both T and handler.
T's read vibrations, so a nervous person who is panicking a bit is more likely to be be bitten than someone who is confident.
these are just the kind of posts i love! undereducated, underexperienced, and overopinionated :}Oh so you're the fool that handles all them spiders on cam?? Yea.. seen a few of your vids and hated every single one of them... for one.. you and your friend c it as a game, and as fun to p*ss the spider off and then handle it... That maculata girl (who's gorgeous) was frightened to death. They threat posture for a reason.. its to say go away, not to give us humans more reason to annoy them and make them look big and scary then let people see how cool we are for handling them... *yawns* Only people that know nothing about T's and their behaviour will say "omg you're so cool for handling them spiders!!!" People who really care for and keep T's (as i've noticed by the comments on the videos) will think its appalling and disgusting, like i do!
The maculata hasn't even got a suitable setup!!! It's a arboreal spider in a terrestrial tank with nothing but a water bowl..no hide, no nothing...
It's wrong!
I really do hope you get bitten! By somethin like a pokie that will do you some damage! (Pokie vid "this girl doesnt like the feel of skin" **i know lets make her walk on my arm!!** :wall: :wall: :evil:
People like you annoy me.. takin pleasure in purposely annoying a spider...you shouldn't be allowed 2 keep the poor things. If that was someone teasing a dog, or tricking a bear (e.g. bear dancing) there'd be laws against it or something legal done about it...... Its out of order.
I respect my T's for the beautiful, wild creatures that they are. All of mine live as naturally in captivity as they can (e.g. burrowers have plenty of substrate and arboreals have plenty of height and things to web on and hide in/behind) Other people should too...
i'm thinking my next tatoo and my first full pro one will be of steve irwin "wrassling" a toxic tiger centipede (S. polymorpha).Well, I think that you can compare his work with these 2 guys.....in some ways.....
Steve Irwin was lucky in that he inherited a lot of what he had from his father who originally opened a reptile park. But, true, his work was great and he is still my absolute hero.
These guys are trying to show the world about arachnids, a group that is rarely focused on, and little is known or appreciated. And, they aren't editing out the bad parts (T's escaping, getting stung by a scorp, etc). I really respect that. A lot of people will edit out those parts so they don't look stupid.
I say, that some newbie will watch the videos and get entranced by the magnificence of these animals! It's worth it to rid even ONE person of ignorance. These videos have the potential to spark the interest of many people into the world of arachnids! YouTube is an incredible tool.
If we can get through to one person at a time that these creatures are NOT monsters, but a beautiful part of God's design, then these videos have done far more good than bad.
While I do wholeheartedly understand your viewpoint, I don't particularly agree with it to a full extent. I hope you can see why.
as far as them not bonding with one person im not sure that is completly true. i think t's are no different than snakes in that respect and snakes do except certain people over others.They don't bond to a particular person per sey. They are not cats or dogs by any means. But my T's are living proof, that if you raise them from slings with a lot of handling and interaction, that not only do they NOT get stressed. But they don't throw up threat postures and they don't express any behaviors other than normal and healthy ones. When you can open an enclosure and get a spider to walk to your hand and get on it without treating it like food, you can see its become a part of thier life style. It doesn't hurt them in any way. My oldest is over 10 years old now, healthy and striking.
If I open an enclosure to say 'hi' and handle, if I don't get any positive reactions I let them sleep, or sit, or continue whatever they are doing. I definately don't think its wise to start poking them with sticks and tweezers to get them to be nice for handling, most likely the opposite. So again in my personal experience and those I know well, Tarantulas can most definately get accustomed to being handled in a comfort zone, if not thier owners.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I believe too, my theory is-it is not exactly a trust of the owner. it is more associating a new event with like, non-negative repercusions.
while they don't really 'remember' the events of handling, their instinct is to adapt, and with repeated handling and no damage, the smell and stimuli of handling gets written in as 'not a threat'.
I agree with the outlook Shadowblade has disclosed, largely. I agree with some points you have raised as well. I know my T's have never lifted a fang to me but when My girlfriend or a buddy holds a particular one, she gets a bit agitated. a leg or two usually become guarded and she is quicker to move at motions. If I take her back to my hands after this behavior has been demonstrated she reverts to being extremely docile and comfortable. This happens more often then not in the hands of others but not all the time, if she seems uncomfortable I take her right back.as far as handling t's. i think its not the best idea. but i also have to say if its not done all the time then its not that big of a deal. they face all kinds of things in the wild everyday.
if its taken to the extreme i think its bad for the t. i also think alot of people do it just to try to prove they are cool. not everyone.
its just a matter of oppinion after all. i really dont think its worth people getting on here and calling names and such. its no different than handling snakes. they can get stressed out also but if you never handle them they also can get very mean. i use to take my snakes out and walk them around for an hour each week. didnt hurt them a bit. so, if you agree or not there is no proof that handling spiders once in a while will hurt them a bit. it may actually be good for them to get pumped up now and then.
these are just the kind of posts i love! undereducated, underexperienced, and overopinionated :}
it's almost always the people with no handling experience and a somewhat poor grasp of tarantula and invert biology and husbandry that are sounding off, it seems. if handling is so bad then why have i never failed to breed a tarantula species? three attempts with two successes and a pending so far. never failed to produce a captive hatched clutch of tarantulas either. i have rediculous success with reproduction, molting, and feeding. these are the only genuince measures of success. all else is foolish anthropomorphizing and of ultimate detriment to the animals in questions.WTF?! Handling has nothing to do with anythin you have mentioned here :? I have success also with feeding, moulting, reproduction and i don't handle mine so what exactly are you tryin to point out? your post makes no sense to me tbh.......
And who are you to tell me i have no handling experience and a poor grasp of invert biology and husbandry????
How i see it, the ones who have something to say about handling because they are concerned about the welfare of the spiders obviously appreciate the spiders for what they are, and show more education, respect and care for the animals.
*sigh*WTF?! Handling has nothing to do with anythin you have mentioned here :? I have success also with feeding, moulting, reproduction and i don't handle mine so what exactly are you tryin to point out? your post makes no sense to me tbh.......these are just the kind of posts i love! undereducated, underexperienced, and overopinionated :}
it's almost always the people with no handling experience and a somewhat poor grasp of tarantula and invert biology and husbandry that are sounding off, it seems. if handling is so bad then why have i never failed to breed a tarantula species? three attempts with two successes and a pending so far. never failed to produce a captive hatched clutch of tarantulas either. i have rediculous success with reproduction, molting, and feeding. these are the only genuince measures of success. all else is foolish anthropomorphizing and of ultimate detriment to the animals in questions.
And who are you to tell me i have no handling experience and a poor grasp of invert biology and husbandry????
How i see it, the ones who have something to say about handling because they are concerned about the welfare of the spiders obviously appreciate the spiders for what they are, and show more education, respect and care for the animals.