Halonoproctidae trapdoor Communal set up

[TrapdoorSpiderLover]

Hey all about a month ago i started a california trapdoor (bothriocyrtum californicum) communal tank with one being on each corner of the tank, will include pictures soon. As of now theyre doing great, i have a smaller one and a larger female one in there.
Now based off this i recently put my two cyclosmia latusicostas together in the same style of communal, and aswell theyre doing great. A larger female and a smaller one in each corner, yesterday i watered them and today i saw the bigger female digging and removing soil from her burrow. Again shall include pictures soon, i wanted to include a video but im not sure you can do that here.

 

[basin79]

Hey all about a month ago i started a california trapdoor (bothriocyrtum californicum) communal tank with one being on each corner of the tank, will include pictures soon. As of now theyre doing great, i have a smaller one and a larger female one in there.
Now based off this i recently put my two cyclosmia latusicostas together in the same style of communal, and aswell theyre doing great. A larger female and a smaller one in each corner, yesterday i watered them and today i saw the bigger female digging and removing soil from her burrow. Again shall include pictures soon, i wanted to include a video but im not sure you can do that here.

What's the advantage of having trapdoors housed together in a large enclosure rather than them in individual smaller enclosures? Or is it more for aesthetics?

 

[Arthroverts]

Looking good! Can't wait for the pictures!
You can upload videos, but I believe they have to go through YouTube or Vimeo first (I could be wrong).

@basin79, ease of care as well as aesthetics. I think its also good for when you have enough of them that when a male matures he can go and find an MF or two in the enclosure, thus creating a reproducing colony.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[basin79]

Looking good! Can't wait for the pictures!
You can upload videos, but I believe they have to go through YouTube or Vimeo first (I could be wrong).

@basin79, ease of care as well as aesthetics. I think its also good for when you have enough of them that when a male matures he can go and find an MF or two in the enclosure, thus creating a reproducing colony.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

Ease of care would be much harder. It's easier dropping in a prey item in a small enclosure for 1 trapdoor knowing that when it's gone the trapdoor has eaten. A large enclosure with 4 you'd have to watch as prey might never go near 1 trapdoor and instead another might eat 2 prey items.

 

[Arthroverts]

That may be true, but it is also easier to maintain ideal conditions in a larger enclosure as opposed to a smaller one. Also, you just put in more food, and remove it if its still there the next day.
I won't speak for @TrapdoorSpiderLover though; he is the one who actually has the communal, ha ha.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[basin79]

That may be true, but it is also easier to maintain ideal conditions in a larger enclosure as opposed to a smaller one. Also, you just put in more food, and remove it if its still there the next day.
I won't speak for @TrapdoorSpiderLover though; he is the one who actually has the communal, ha ha.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

Again how are the conditions better when each spider is given a corner in a large enclosure compared to a trapdoor spider that is given the same space in an individual enclosure? They're not getting a temperature gradient or different humidity.

 

[NYAN]

I wouldn’t risk it with a $125 spider. There’s no real benefit since they can’t breed.

 

[basin79]

I wouldn’t risk it with a $125 spider. There’s no real benefit since they can’t breed.

The price shouldn't come into it but yes.

 

[TrapdoorSpiderLover]

The price shouldn't come into it but yes.

im doing it mostly for ease atm and as a bit of a experiment, i believe these spiders will do well, but you and nyan make some good points. i will definitely be upgrading the whole setup soon so it is much much larger.

 

[RezonantVoid]

im doing it mostly for ease atm and as a bit of a experiment, i believe these spiders will do well, but you and nyan make some good points. i will definitely be upgrading the whole setup soon so it is much much larger.

A trapdoor communal is a really interesting concept, and something I am planning on constructing soon with some slings of mine. Hope it all works out!

However, what I can assure you is that such a project is pretty much always on thin ice. I've tried it once before and for a month or so I had 2 adult Arbanitis sp. in together, both had established burrows and were doing fine with feeding. Then one day out of the blue, I checked in the morning to find one had obliterated the other one when it had come outside to dump soil away from its burrow. For this reason I never introduce WC adults together, and only use slings for trap communals where they can learn to establish their territories together better. Some exceptions are members of Barychelidae where they have been recorded making unique foot taps to signal their presence around other burrows, but generic trapdoors always run a risk of being eaten by their tank mates while strolling around. Even my most reclusive species come outside at least once a month for lid maintenance, and will often chase down prey accross their enclosures.

To maximize your chances of a successful communal and to minimise what @basin79 touched on, I would be individually tweezers feeding each burrow to hopefully stop them feeling compelled to chase prey down across the enclosure. Alot of decorational items placed between each burrow may also help prevent them wandering into each other's strike zone while soil dumping.

Looking forward to seeing some photos and hearing more in the future about how this project is going

 

[TrapdoorSpiderLover]

A trapdoor communal is a really interesting concept, and something I am planning on constructing soon with some slings of mine. Hope it all works out!

However, what I can assure you is that such a project is pretty much always on thin ice. I've tried it once before and for a month or so I had 2 adult Arbanitis sp. in together, both had established burrows and were doing fine with feeding. Then one day out of the blue, I checked in the morning to find one had obliterated the other one when it had come outside to dump soil away from its burrow. For this reason I never introduce WC adults together, and only use slings for trap communals where they can learn to establish their territories together better. Some exceptions are members of Barychelidae where they have been recorded making unique foot taps to signal their presence around other burrows, but generic trapdoors always run a risk of being eaten by their tank mates while strolling around. Even my most reclusive species come outside at least once a month for lid maintenance, and will often chase down prey accross their enclosures.

To maximize your chances of a successful communal and to minimise what @basin79 touched on, I would be individually tweezers feeding each burrow to hopefully stop them feeling compelled to chase prey down across the enclosure. Alot of decorational items placed between each burrow may also help prevent them wandering into each other's strike zone while soil dumping.

Looking forward to seeing some photos and hearing more in the future about how this project is going

Although i agree with everything you said here and find it very helpful there is one thing, halonoproctidae trapdoors are very, very reclusive and almost never travel outside their burrows, when they do they always have their back legs in the burrow. they differ alot from aussie trapdoors, just thought id throw that in, thanks for the help!

 

[RezonantVoid]

they differ alot from aussie trapdoors, just thought id throw that in, thanks for the help!

Should I mention it's a family also present in Australasia?

After searching Californicum, I found the image from this link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bothriocyrtum_californicum

Now compare my Euoplos Variabilis.

From everything I'm seeing, not only do both families live in reasonably close proximity, but both appear and behave nearly identically, maybe except for the fact that Euoplos likes to live in rainforest areas. It's an EXTREMELY reclusive genus as a whole and Ive got one specimen that I have not seen once since buying it a year ago, but it still does surprise me with random piles of dirt in its tank every 3 months or so, in the opposite corner to its burrow. From what I can tell there is very likely little difference in how these 2 behave, even the thick plug-like lids and rubbery burrow walls match up.

However, if they do behave anything like Euoplos, the risk of encountering each other is probably quite low as you say, especially since they already have established burrows. Id still tweezer feed as precaution where possible, and take a note of where any excavated soil ends up

 

[mantisfan101]

I don't know much about trapdoors or true spiders in general but I do know that no matter what, if it's predator, communal living is always a major risk. For such a rare species as these I would keep them separately unless you have an established population/locale where you can access other specimens from. With that said, these do seem like a very sedentary species and I don't think cannibalism is very likely but similarly with RezonantVoid's story, there is always a chance. I would pay very close attention to where the burrows are located so that they don't accidentally enter one another's territory.