Halloween heros babies

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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I was pretty excited when I saw the S. h. heros and S. h. castaneiceps mate. I finally got babies and, ...I don't know, I didn't feel as much as I thought I would when I saw them change color. Well here they are. The point was to see if the two color varieties were actually able to have offspring together. Ultimately, it would be best to hang on and see if these babies can have babies. I think that would take three years, going by the size of my other two year old pedes. They surely breed with each other along overlapping boundaries, I've seen some strange ones but not many. Obviously, it's time to separate them. Pretty cool though, right? They look like S. heros heros at first glance but they are a MUCH darker, tangerine orange with almost black terminals, unlike S. h. heros. And it you look closer, you will notice they have orange legs like the female, instead of whitish legs like S. h. heros. Looking forward to them getting a little bigger, maybe some slight color changes(?)

 

Steven

pede-a-holic
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simply GREAT !!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


yet another proof color means nothing ;)
and Heros don't have subspecie but colorvariants.

really good stuff Galapoheros !!
congratz :worship:

keep us updated when they get more color :drool:
 

peterbourbon

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This thread already made my day though it's only 7.A.M. over here...
Excellent work and important step for the pede-scene.

Normally i don't say that, but: I WANT ONE! :drool:

Regards
Turgut
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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I thought some people would think it was cool. OK, I'll take pics after molts. Here's some behavioral stuff I've seen that makes me wonder if there is some "speciation" going on. I don't know what's going on, I'm just a hobby dude, but, ...I saw a female S. h. heros go through a castaneiceps web tunnel and saw her obviously, deliberately not pick up the spermatophore. It makes me wonder it there is some differences that are widening as things evolve. But it could be something else of course, like being gravid already, too young, not ready, etc. I did get these babies from a successful breeding of neighbors, but she only had 11 or 12 which is a very small clutch for heros pedes, but that might not mean anything either. Then I put a different banded color form(a male) that I found much further west with the three different female castaneiceps, and more than once for each female. I don't believe these two color forms have overlapping boundaries. The most amount of time one castaneiceps showed interest was about 5 minutes. Each time, the female tapped his terminals for a while but they always ended up walking away. I should have put these same females with a male castaneiceps to see if they were more interested in the castaneiceps male compared to the heros heros but I just haven't done that yet, I'm kind of lazy sometimes. To see a S. h. arizonensis which is the furthest western most color form mate with the most eastern form, castaneiceps, ...that would really be something to see!
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
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very nice :D love all heros species.

I think i need to stop being a chicken and start breeding more than ethmostigmus lol..

Got so many species and i never try putting them together lool :)
 

bistrobob85

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Very interesting, Todd :). Congratulations, i wonder how they'll all turn out... Defenetly keep a few to see how it goes!!!!

phil.
 

Elytra and Antenna

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yet another proof color means nothing ;)
and Heros don't have subspecie but colorvariants.
A subspecies designation INCLUDES the ability to interbreed with the nominate. Here are a number of different definitions you should check out:
Various definitions of subspecies.
Subspecies normally by definition have no trouble interbreeding otherwise they would be different species (check out species definitions).
 

mindlessvw

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Whatever Todd...always have to be the one showing off:) very cool glad you got some pictures up! I can't wait to see them after a few molts...
 

peterbourbon

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A subspecies designation INCLUDES the ability to interbreed with the nominate.
Subspecies normally by definition have no trouble interbreeding otherwise they would be different species (check out species definitions).
Interesting link & it's quite clear interbreed is possible between two subspecies.
Nevertheless heros "subspecies" are only distinguished by color and no other taxonomical features that distinguish each scolopendromorpha specie i know so far (as featured in "Das Tierreich" by Attems). That makes Sc. heros "subspecies" only "color morphs" and thus only variants of heros.
Just my 2 cents, but it sounds plausible to me.

BTW: The taxonomically valid specie is Scolopendra heros.
Scolopendra heros castaneiceps, heros, arizonensis don't exist as subspecie.

Regards
Turgut
 

ragnew

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Those guys are just too cool Gala!

Great looking babies!
 

szappan

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You are a scholar and a master! :worship: :worship: :worship:

Simply gorgeous... congratulations! And thank you for sharing with us!
 

Elytra and Antenna

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Interesting link & it's quite clear interbreed is possible between two subspecies.
Yes, it certainly is interesting. It does suggest the two are in fact not different species as originally proposed (Scolopendra castaneiceps Wood) but later revised. Again, as a general rule subspecies can cross or they'd be different species. I'm sure you know many different species and even genera can interbreed so the definitions are somewhat imperfect. The heros color forms are geograpically based which would make them subspecies rather than variants according to the listed definition of subspecies but if one claims subspecies can't interbreed (the opposite of the defintion of subspecies) then it really doesnt' matter much.
 

Galapoheros

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Hey thanks, I really didn't do much though, just gave it a shot. I think I got pretty lucky and I even got lucky with only getting 11 babies. I wouldn't have wanted to see a load of these babies. I knew y'all would be interested. I need to read about the species definitions too, I tend to neglect the written info/science end of it, it's interesting stuff. OK I put them all in delis with a food shoot in the middle of the top. This time I'm not going with coco fiber. I'm going with desert substrate with access to water ..overflowing the dish a little when I water and spraying a side. It works with low ventilation, it's how I raised some other heros babies. Here's one eating it's first roach nymph.


Cool, I had typical heros babies last year and found an old pic of one of those babies having it's first prey meal, we can compare them. Hmm, not that much more orange...

 
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bistrobob85

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Very nice stuff, Todd... Notice the color variations with the pedelings terminals and legs... i guess this proposes that they might get to be different adults. Super interesting :)!!!! I wonder if any of them will develop a reddish head...

phil.
 

Steven

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A subspecies designation INCLUDES the ability to interbreed with the nominate. Here are a number of different definitions you should check out:
Various definitions of subspecies.
i used the wrong words for what i wanted to say,
mixed up things for what i wanted to reply
but thanx for the definitions, allthough they are somewhat imperfect.

seems Turgut had more time to give a proper reply :p ;)

just one thing isn't quite clear to me,
can a subspecie only interbreed with the nominate or also with other subspecie ? for example to which can Scolopendra subspinipes dehaani be interbred ?
Sc.subsp.subspinipes or Sc.subsp.mutilans or both ? :?
 

bengerno

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Big congarts Gala!
Can't wait to see them as they grow...maybe they will change color during the time. Really cool experiment! ;)
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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just one thing isn't quite clear to me,
can a subspecie only interbreed with the nominate or also with other subspecie ? for example to which can Scolopendra subspinipes dehaani be interbred ?
Sc.subsp.subspinipes or Sc.subsp.mutilans or both ? :?
I'm sure you know we cant' exactly answer that with centipedes but with other animals all subspecies normally can cross. However, there is an uncommon variation (rough example: A-East B-Central C-West. A crosses with B and C crosses with B but A and C don't).
 
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