Habitat size questions and spider stress

[MarkJ]

I've seen quite a few comments here talking about reducing the size of a spider habitat and how having an environment that is "too big" can cause stress on a spider. I do acknowledge that having a smaller habitat does make it easier for husbandry such as monitoring food intake and keeping the environment clean and healthy. With the exception of bio tanks which should be pretty much perpetually cleaned all the time, the food monitoring is the only real difficulty I can see arising from a larger environment.

In the wild of course there is no 'cage' for spiders and they do just fine so how does too much space tress out spiders in captivity?
What does stress on a spider that is caused by being in a large habitat actually look like?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[antinous]

They wouldn’t necessarily get stressed from a large enclosure. As long as the enclosure is set up properly (if fossorial enough substrate, hides present, etc.) then they’ll be fine. Similar to what they’ll do in the wild, they’ll just pick a an area to setup shop and stay there for the most part. Tarantulas are sedentary ‘sit and wait’ predators, in the wild they don’t ‘hunt’. Sure you can give them an 80 gallon, but that’s going to be harder for you to maintain and it’s mainly just because you want an enclosure that size, not because they need one or will utilize it.

There’s two individuals (𝘗𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘩𝘰𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘶𝘴 sp. & 𝘔𝘦𝘨𝘢𝘱𝘩𝘰𝘣𝘦𝘮𝘢 𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘷𝘦𝘵𝘰𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘢) that I’ve seen in the wild (mature females) and they’ve hardly ever moved from where they were 3+ years ago where I found them according to local friends (although they will move if heavily disturbed by predators, area isn’t suitable, etc.).

Either way, yes you can provide as large of an enclosure as you want to. Will they utilize all the space? No. Will it be difficult to maintain? Yes (especially if it’s a sling). Smaller enclosures (not cramped) are easier to maintain, take up less space, and still provide spiders with everything they need to thrive.


Photo of said AF 𝘔𝘦𝘨𝘢𝘱𝘩𝘰𝘣𝘦𝘮𝘢 𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘷𝘦𝘵𝘰𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘢 who is still in this shallow ‘burrow’ in the Ecuadorian Amazon that I found her in.

 

[Smotzer]

The wild and an enclosure are two very different things, and a large enclosure on its own isn't negative, its just thhat often they aren't set up in a way that it is cluttered up to an optimal level for its size. But tarantulas naturally hide because being out in the open is not always safe, its the same way inside a enclosure thhat is mostly barren with just a cork bark hide, substrate and a water dish and large. Also tarantulas do to how they evolved are ambush sit and wait predators so the fact is that they wont use an oversized enclosure regardless. If its really big its more for the keeper than for them necessarily.

But thhe idea of tarantula "stress" is blown way out of proportion as well.

 

[JasperTheSpooder]

Just as long as you set it up correctly it'll be fine. How big is the enclosure vs the spider? That will help you determine how much clutter to put in there.

 

[MarkJ]

Just as long as you set it up correctly it'll be fine. How big is the enclosure vs the spider? That will help you determine how much clutter to put in there.

For what I was doing the enclosures were bio tanks sized for the full grown spider, each one for a specific species. The actual spiders I got were small juveniles so they will be growing into the tanks. Other than making sure they eat I haven't noticed anything that would suggest there are issues. Several molts and consistent eating would lead me to think they aren't stressed at all....

 

[Craig73]

Stress isn’t a term I use all that often; I primarily think of it when rehousing.

Larger enclosures are fine as long as husbandry is on point and it’s furnished in a way that provides the T the security/shelter it needs IMO. I will
caveat this with if a person is going for a larger enclosure for the sole purpose of never having to rehouse for fear or inexperience it would be a red flag.

I’ve used large enclosures for larger juveniles for final homes, but I’ve also done it based on fear. There was a night and day difference in my husbandry/care between the two when using larger enclosures for me.

 

[cold blood]

I've seen quite a few comments here talking about reducing the size of a spider habitat and how having an environment that is "too big" can cause stress on a spider. I do acknowledge that having a smaller habitat does make it easier for husbandry such as monitoring food intake and keeping the environment clean and healthy. With the exception of bio tanks which should be pretty much perpetually cleaned all the time, the food monitoring is the only real difficulty I can see arising from a larger environment.

In the wild of course there is no 'cage' for spiders and they do just fine so how does too much space tress out spiders in captivity?
What does stress on a spider that is caused by being in a large habitat actually look like?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

I think people consistently misunderstand why smaller enclosures are better...bottom line, it has NOTHING at all to do with stress...zip, zero, nada....if stress killed ts, they would all be extinct in the wild. Small enclosures for slings also do NOT apply to all tarantula species, it mainly concerns NW terrestrials, It also ONLY applies to slings, not juvies, not adults. And the reason is actually because you want to avoid having the sling burrow away....too much room gets a more natural response that you might see in nature...that is excessive hiding, significantly lower food response, which combine to result in significantly slower growth rates...like 5 times slower is what my experimentation showed.

Getting a sling out of that sling stage vastly increases survival rates as once they are out of that stage, they are far more resilient.

You state that in the wild they do just fine....well not really, in the wild, survival rates are at or below 3%, in captivity those rates flip to a survival rate of 97% or more.

 

[MarkJ]

I think people consistently misunderstand why smaller enclosures are better...bottom line, it has NOTHING at all to do with stress...zip, zero, nada....if stress killed ts, they would all be extinct in the wild. Small enclosures for slings also do NOT apply to all tarantula species, it mainly concerns NW terrestrials, It also ONLY applies to slings, not juvies, not adults. And the reason is actually because you want to avoid having the sling burrow away....too much room gets a more natural response that you might see in nature...that is excessive hiding, significantly lower food response, which combine to result in significantly slower growth rates...like 5 times slower is what my experimentation showed.

Getting a sling out of that sling stage vastly increases survival rates as once they are out of that stage, they are far more resilient.

You state that in the wild they do just fine....well not really, in the wild, survival rates are at or below 3%, in captivity those rates flip to a survival rate of 97% or more.

Thank you for that info!

In the case of slings you make a great point that I wasn't aware of, I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future.

Of course in the wild their survival rates are low, but then thats why egg sacks house so many. Just imagine if all the egg sacks laid in the wild had a 97% survival rate!

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

You state that in the wild they do just fine....well not really, in the wild, survival rates are at or below 3%, in captivity those rates flip to a survival rate of 97% or more.

Where did those percentage numbers come from?

 

[cold blood]

Where did those percentage numbers come from?

general survival rate (recruitment) estimates...they are not specific

 

[viper69]

an environment that is "too big" can cause stress on a spider.

FALSE- a box that provides no or little cover is an issue

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

general survival rate (recruitment) estimates...they are not specific

I don’t understand what that means. Can you elaborate or provide a link to a source? General survival rate estimates between wild and captives of what organism?

 

[cold blood]

I don’t understand what that means. Can you elaborate or provide a link to a source? General survival rate estimates between wild and captives of what organism?

almost all that have large clutches, from fish to inverts, survival rates in the wild are very low.

 

[Jonathan6303]

I don’t understand what that means. Can you elaborate or provide a link to a source? General survival rate estimates between wild and captives of what organism?

I think it’s an educated guess.