H.arizonensis/spadix Communality Experiment

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Kugellager

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Well the H.arizonensis/H.spadix experiment has begun as I have put them in the same enclosure this morning...moved the spadix to the H.arizonensis enclosure to be exact (see pic in enclosure/set-up thread). I purposely guided the spadix to the scrape the arizonensis was using to see what would happen...nothing...though it is not the active evening period when they search for prey.

I'm taking notes and will watch everything carefully and post back with any results.. They are both well fed at the moment so any squabbling should not be due to food if I see any.

John
];')
 
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Henry Kane

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Hey Kug! :)
Any news to report since yesterday? How are they doing? Good I hope.


Atrax
 

skinheaddave

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It has .... begun. ;) So your spadix finaly showed himself, eh? Let us know what is happening in this long-awaited experiment.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Kugellager

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arizonensis/spadix Experiment Update

Well, the lights go out on the tank about 10 so I waited til about 11 and went in to check things out. They were both out of their hides and digging in their perspective corners. I observed the spadix walk up to the arizonensis several times and walk right over it. The only response from the arizonensis was to push at the spadix with its tail. The telson was folded in. There was no other pushing or grabbing by the spadix.

They seem so far to behave much less aggressively toward each other than my communal M.martensii do. They are now under the same rock(the arizonensis is partially under space may be too small for both). So next is to see what happens at feeding.

So far so good.

John
];')
 

Kugellager

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Well, its been almost a week and everyone is still alive. I will try to study their behavior more in the evenings this weekend.

John
];')
 

Kugellager

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Well its been several months now and the 'experiment' is still going well. They continue to 'play' nicely with one another. In fact, the other day I even observed them taking turns excavating a new burrow!!!...go figure.

john
];')
 

nocturnalpulsem

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Hey, so how's this going? I'm supposed to be picking up a pair of desert hairies today, though, I'm not sure if it'll be spadix or arizonensis. Are your 2 still playing nice?

N.
 

Kugellager

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Actually they both bit the dust about two months ago...not due to fighting...found them both dead in their burrows after not have seen either of them for a couple of months...not sure why they died either.

John
];')
 
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nocturnalpulsem

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Originally posted by Kugellager
Actually they both bit the dust about two months ago...not due to fighting...found them both dean in their burrows after not have seen either of them for a couple of months...not sure why they died either.

John
];')
Well, that's not very encouraging...sorry to hear that, John.

The damn scorps still haven't come, yet...I'm a little discouraged. :(

N.
 

Kaos

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Hi nocturnalpulsem!

If you're deciding to try keeping them communal i hope you post reports here. I'm expecting four of them soon to, and i'm considering to try a communal experiment. It seems like John's were doing fine, but i'd like some more reports as they're not so easy to get here in Norway.

Anyone else who has any experience keeping them communal?
 

Kugellager

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I just realized I never posted why I believed they died. See..at the same time I was testing the communality of these two different species I was also experimenting in using the humidification from below method...well using it with these guys was not a good theory. Anyway...that is the reason I believe they died...had nothing to do in the least with keeping them together.

Infact...after a week they behaved like H.arizonensis do when kept communally...just need to keep them fed well.

John
];')
 

PIter

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Just came by this thread. So Kugellager you say that humidification from below is a no-go with Desert Hairys?

Desert Hairys.
Peter
 

Keith

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Another Hadrurus Arizonensis Communal Experiment

This thread has given me the courage to try it, so I just bought another Hadrurus Arizonensis. It will arrive thursday. Kugellager, what size enclosure did you use? Did you destroy the burrows/hideing places and rearrange the scenery, or just add the new scorpion to the existing environment which was built by the first scorpion? How often and how much did you feed them?
 

Kugellager

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I would strongly discourage the use of the under substrate method for this and any other desert species from the SW US.

I believe this is what led to their premature deaths as described above.

I kept both in the same 20 long tank as seen in some of my later photos in the 'Scorp enclosure' thread.

They behaved as two H.arizonensis would toward one another in a communal set-up. In communal set-ups with species that are only moderately communal you need more space per animal than in a 'normal' communal set-up with a highly communal species. In set-ups with two different species I would recommend increasing the space further. Regardless...anyone experimenting with communal keeping should be prepared for cannibalism in even the most tolerant of species...

I was recently reminded of this with one of my 'rare' specemins recently. :(

John
];')

Keith...I re-did the entire enclosure when I began the experiment. They made many burrows as this genus is know for and even shared the digging as well as the burrows for a time.
 

fusion121

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Kugellager said:
I would strongly discourage the use of the under substrate method for this and any other desert species from the SW US.

I believe this is what led to their premature deaths as described above.

I kept both in the same 20 long tank as seen in some of my later photos in the 'Scorp enclosure' thread.

They behaved as two H.arizonensis would toward one another in a communal set-up. In communal set-ups with species that are only moderately communal you need more space per animal than in a 'normal' communal set-up with a highly communal species. In set-ups with two different species I would recommend increasing the space further. Regardless...anyone experimenting with communal keeping should be prepared for cannibalism in even the most tolerant of species...

I was recently reminded of this with one of my 'rare' specemins recently. :(

John
];')

Keith...I re-did the entire enclosure when I began the experiment. They made many burrows as this genus is know for and even shared the digging as well as the burrows for a time.
I'm interested how you did your "under substrate method" I've done it breifly with H.arizonensis and it worked but it took me along time to perfect it. What were your humidty readings in the burrow and at the surface, how deep was your substrate, and what kind of moisture level did you have in the lowest layer of sand?
From my experience I've found H.arizonensis are very susceptable to wet substrates which seriously stresses them out, however they don't mind relatively high humidity levels and i suspect the absense of the moisture gradient is one of the major factors responsible for the difficulties in raising scorplings of this genus.
 
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