GBB molting issue

[natebugman]

My ~2" female Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens decided it was time to molt and flipped onto her back yesterday morning. At first, I noticed some movement from her per usual during a molt, but now she has been on her back for going on 36 hours and she hasn't even popped her carapace. There doesn't seem to be any movement from her. Is there any hope for her at all or do I have a dead spider on my hands?

 

[curiousme]

Not to be insensitive, but if it smells it is dead. I wouldn't give up on it until then. That said, 26 hours for one that small doesn't bode well.

 

[Nanchantress]

Please keep us posted...I'm crossing my fingers for you.

 

[yannigarrido2]

it might be a good idea to mist the enclosure a bit, Ts do respond to seasonal cues in the wild like rain and floods, most of my Ts molt when it rains.

 

[curiousme]

it might be a good idea to mist the enclosure a bit, Ts do respond to seasonal cues in the wild like rain and floods, most of my Ts molt when it rains.

The T is already on its back and has been for over 24 hours. Misting would do nothing, or trigger anything further. Misting while molting will not actually help a T to molt either, since it is internal humidity/ hydration that makes that difference.

 

[Gold Skulltula]

My first attempt at raising a Versi ended similarly. It flipped and never moved from that spot.

Check your husbandry and see if there's a possibility that anything could be too off. After inspecting my set up (and comparing it to the one I have now), the enclosure got wayyyy too dry. I've never owned C. cyaneopubescens, so I can't recall exactly what they like.

 

[esotericman]

The T is already on its back and has been for over 24 hours. Misting would do nothing, or trigger anything further. Misting while molting will not actually help a T to molt either, since it is internal humidity/ hydration that makes that difference.

Incorrect statement. The increased humidity will soften the old exuvium, which might aid in molting. Some people also use a weak solution of glycerin, which acts as a wetting agent.

The internal fluid lost between the new and old exvuvium does act as a lubricant though. Dehydrated tarantulas often can not create enough external fluid to loosen, soften and lubricate the process. This is why we suggest ICU's or misting if things go poorly.

Now then, back to the OP, at that size it should have easily been able to molt, and I suspect something did go wrong. If you notice a smell, or the animal is completely limp, it has passed on. These things do happen for no reason, but it's always good to take a look at your care, culture and setup.

Good luck.

 

[Embers To Ashes]

Any change in her?

 

[natebugman]

There was no change this morning. I haven't made it home to check on her this evening, but I'm not very optimistic. Thanks for the advice and concern.

 

[paassatt]

Incorrect statement. The increased humidity will soften the old exuvium, which might aid in molting. Some people also use a weak solution of glycerin, which acts as a wetting agent.

But since the water will evaporate so quickly after misting, will that really induce a marked spike in humidity?

 

[curiousme]

Incorrect statement. The increased humidity will soften the old exuvium, which might aid in molting. Some people also use a weak solution of glycerin, which acts as a wetting agent.

The internal fluid lost between the new and old exvuvium does act as a lubricant though. Dehydrated tarantulas often can not create enough external fluid to loosen, soften and lubricate the process. This is why we suggest ICU's or misting if things go poorly.

You know, I thought as much at one time too. Then I was corrected by Stan Schultz. The fact that the exoskeleton is impermeable due to the epicuticle leads me to believe the statement to be valid. People suggest it, because everyone suggests it. Not because it is actually a valid way to help.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

There was no change this morning. I haven't made it home to check on her this evening, but I'm not very optimistic. Thanks for the advice and concern.

I am sorry the outlook is bleak.

 

[esotericman]

Huh, and soaking an exuvium in soapy water does not work? Oh, wait, that has a surfactant in it. Oh and access to the inside surface, just like a popped exuvium? And he assumes the cuticle stays intact as does the exoskeleton when it is stretched just as the molt starts. I don't recall him quoting the peer reviewed published lit on mass loss in the exuvium through the process.

He also does suggest an ICU for everything, including bad molts. Invoking his name means little when he does not support your statement, nor are his statements completely accurate. If his book was always 100%, there would be no need for discussion boards.

Also farther down in the thread he proposes that rains maybe used to help molting... really.

If he wasn't driving all over heck and back, we could have a merry discussion, but it'd come down to assumptions on his part, and on mine. I have more time to hit the literature, and more access, he's has 30+ years of experience, I only have 15.

In any case, no offense intended, but Stan's the first to admit he's not always right. Neither am I, but my opinions are based on a lot of information.

 

[yannigarrido2]

i only said that the t might be just waiting for an environmental cue just like some of my Ts do, but it turns out i was wrong

 

[curiousme]

Huh, and soaking an exuvium in soapy water does not work? Oh, wait, that has a surfactant in it.

Which is also why soap on the T can cause it to drown.

Oh and access to the inside surface, just like a popped exuvium? And he assumes the cuticle stays intact as does the exoskeleton when it is stretched just as the molt starts. I don't recall him quoting the peer reviewed published lit on mass loss in the exuvium through the process.

Nope, he didn't...... though neither did you. I would love to read it, if you have a link. I do not want to give incorrect or bad advice.

...Invoking his name means little when he does not support your statement, nor are his statements completely accurate. If his book was always 100%, there would be no need for discussion boards.

I apologize. I was combining several different posts of his, some from memory, in giving the advice. Here is another. I do not always agree with Stan Schultz and we have never kept a T in his recommended utilitarian set-ups. But when it comes to science of T keeping, I felt he was a good source for information. I am not trying to join a fan club though.

Also farther down in the thread he proposes that rains maybe used to help molting... really.

Are we reading the same thread? He only mentions rain in the context of it triggering molts, not helping.

If he wasn't driving all over heck and back, we could have a merry discussion, but it'd come down to assumptions on his part, and on mine. I have more time to hit the literature, and more access, he's has 30+ years of experience, I only have 15.

And I have a dozen more to go, before I would have as many, as you have now.

In any case, no offense intended, but Stan's the first to admit he's not always right. Neither am I, but my opinions are based on a lot of information.

None taken and I am not trying to quibble. I would just like to pass on good information, not incorrect information.


*~Nate- since you have not resurfaced in the thread, I assume the worst has happened. Condolences for your loss.

 

[esotericman]

Which is also why soap on the T can cause it to drown.

None taken and I am not trying to quibble. I would just like to pass on good information, not incorrect information.


*~Nate- since you have not resurfaced in the thread, I assume the worst has happened. Condolences for your loss.

I was referencing the use of glycerin from that previous post. Sorry. I will hunt down that article as well and post the reference. I might find that it was actually buried in a textbook. I didn't have time to hunt it down the other day, and a quick look is proving fruitless. I apologize for the delay.

I agree 100% on the accurate advice stuff, so we're all on the same page here, that's great.

Nate posted his issue on another discussion board, and has not resurfaced there either. I would have assumed the worse on a spider that size after 24 hours, sadly.

 

[natebugman]

Sorry that I haven't posted the last day or so, but there had been no change until this evening. I just checked her, and she has passed on without question. I don't know if she continued to survive trapped in her old exoskeleton or decomposition just took this long to produce the definitive signs. I hope that it was a quick death with little suffering. Rest in peace little GBB.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

I will chime in with my opinion.

When a spider is molting in a high humidity enclosure, the fluid inbetween the new and old exo will probably not evaporate as quickly as a low humidity situation. (given the molt takes longer after the legs start to come out) I believe a higher humidity for a longer molt process is critical. Not in this case, unless there is an extreme. Ive heard alot of coinsedences of molts (and sac laying) during a good storm. Maybe this causes the spider to drink and become hydrated making for a good molt. Or they have adapted to using the humidity to there advantage to prevent water loss during a molt (and while turning an eggsac.)

I would have to say internal hydration is key and without it the spider is lost. But with an extreme low in humidity, along with high temps, water loss is unpreventable and a molt will fail (given it takes alot of time.) (Theraphosa comes to mind when i consider humidity and molts.) This may be a reason why most spiders will choose a higher humidity environment to molt, such as a burrow or the damp side of the enclosure, or even the water dish(given its a wet loving spider kept on dry substrate).

In this case, i would have to say the spider should of been fine at room temp, as long as it had full access to water.

 

[esotericman]

Honestly, it wasn't humidity that caused the problem, unless it was TOO much before the molt even started. Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens are very sensitive to overly wet conditions, and are well adapted to molting with very low relative humidity. Internal water wasn't the problem, but we won't know what was the problem. Most of us reacted with what would have been a good option, which was humidity for a short time to soften things up. Since it had not popped the cephlothorax, it wasn't going to help, it was a last ditch effort, which I agreed with.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

Honestly, it wasn't humidity that caused the problem, unless it was TOO much before the molt even started. Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens are very sensitive to overly wet conditions, and are well adapted to molting with very low relative humidity. Internal water wasn't the problem, but we won't know what was the problem. Most of us reacted with what would have been a good option, which was humidity for a short time to soften things up. Since it had not popped the cephlothorax, it wasn't going to help, it was a last ditch effort, which I agreed with.

I agree with your statments completly. Nothing wrong with a last ditch effort. Low humidity at room temp isnt horrible. But at an elevated temp may prove deadly.

My opinion on icu and stuck molts: Take a still wet molt and place it into a icu and it will stay damp. True. Placing a T in an icu may give them this extra time to work on the molt. While allowing you to hydrate them with a dropper hopiong they will force the rest of the molt off. It probably wont work if its hardened already but it may work if you add some glycerin to the legs (avoiding the book lungs). Just my theory. Of course given you do this in a reasonable amount of time and its still struggling.