G. Rosea Down to 5 Legs After Molt - What are it's chances?

[fussgangerzone]

So yesterday morning, my G. Rosea was on it's back getting ready to molt.
I topped up it's water dish and went to work.

When I got home, the spider was underneath the cast-off skin, but the right way up, not upside down, hiding between it, and the edge of the tank which is webbed up. I was eager to see how it went, but thought it safest to let it do it's thing and rest. Because it was the right way up and not still on it's back, and was apparently separated from the old skin, I wasn't worried.

This evening, I got back, the spider was still in the same place, but was pointing in the opposite direction, so I felt it was safe to remove the old skin. When I did , I got a shock, the spider has lost three of it's legs.

I think humidity, or lack of, may have been the cause.

The one nearest the front on the left, and the two nearest the front on the right. Fortunately the pedipalps seem fine. I can't tell if the fangs are ok, but I can't see anything wrong with them. I want to avoid touching the spider in case I hurt it more. This is my first spider.

When I checked the spiders responsiveness, blowing on it very lightly, from a distance, it responded with a little flinch, which is normal for this spider. Then it waved it's legs about a bit. I'm worried it might be trying, and failing, to walk.

It's not a very young spider, I got it last July and this was it's first molt.
At the moment my approach is to wait and see, keep the water pot soaked, sprinkle a few drops of water around the tank. I can't see signs of bleeding.

In about two weeks if it's still alive, I plan to try feeding it a pre-killed cricket.

I have a bunch of questions for the people here:
1. Can a spider come back from this?
2. What can I do to improve it's chances?
3. Will it even be able to walk?
4. Is my tank too big to allow humidity? It's a re-purposed rectangular fish tank. 1' wide, 2' long, 1.5' high. Roughly.
5. Due to a harsh winter, I bought a heat pad, which is under the soil. To the touch, the soil above it is about as warm as a persons hand. This is where the spider molted. I've turned this heat pad off for now. On or off? In general, am I doing it wrong, using this heat pad?

Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Mammothdog]

O.O 2 inches wide !!! I would loose legs to if I were scrunched up like that. lol jk I'm guessing you meaning feet by the measurements not inches. Sometimes things happen but I would recommend taking out your heatpad. It's not to healthy for the tarantula to have it in there.

 

[fussgangerzone]

O.O 2 inches wide !!! I would loose legs to if I were scrunched up like that. lol jk I'm guessing you meaning feet by the measurements not inches. Sometimes things happen but I would recommend taking out your heatpad. It's not to healthy for the tarantula to have it in there.

Thanks, I'll do that. I installed it as an emergency measure during a cold winter. After that it seemed to have an attraction to the warmer end of the tank, so I thought it might be ok. Better to just make sure the room is at an appropriate temperature I suppose.

Also, yep I meant feet

 

[RyTheTGuy]

Thanks, I'll do that. I installed it as an emergency measure during a cold winter. After that it seemed to have an attraction to the warmer end of the tank, so I thought it might be ok. Better to just make sure the room is at a different temperature I suppose.

Also, yep I meant feet

You can still use the heat pad just dont put it inside the enclosure. Ts can burn themselves very easy if its inside.

 

[kean]

I have a bunch of questions for the people here:
1. Can a spider come back from this?
2. What can I do to improve it's chances?
3. Will it even be able to walk?
4. Is my tank too big to allow humidity? It's a re-purposed rectangular fish tank. 1' wide, 2' long, 1.5' high. Roughly.
5. Due to a harsh winter, I bought a heat pad, which is under the soil. To the touch, the soil above it is about as warm as a persons hand. This is where the spider molted. I've turned this heat pad off for now. On or off? In general, am I doing it wrong, using this heat pad?

Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you.

1. Yes in a couple of molts the legs will grow back.
2. Just leave it alone. avoid handling or stressing the T and provide a water dish.
3. yes it will walk. (or crawl)
4. Rosie's don't need much humidity as they like more on the dry side. again just provide a water dish. or mist the enclosure sides 2-3times a week. plus substrate should be deep enough to avoid injuries for your T when it crawls up the enclo and accidentally falls.
5. I personally haven't used heat pads coz i'm living in a tropical country. i'll leave that question for people with experience on heat pads.

hope this helps. enjoy your T

 

[fussgangerzone]

Update: it's been moving it's legs around, like it's trying to move, but it's legs aren't really hard yet, so it's just sort of turning. I've given it the dark so it can relax a bit, I'll just have to wait til morning to see if anything changes.

 

[Tym Hollerup]

NEVER USE HEAT PADS! Period! I too got a heat pad when I first got into the hobby. It is just a fast way too line the pockets of the Pet Stores! My room stays a very nice 78-82 degrees at all times! This is done with a space heater. Heat pads (regardless if outside the enclosure or not) can (and have) burned T's. Tarantulas have died due to heating pads. Burrowing species are the ones mainly getting hurt, so your rosea may be fine, but that's not the point. Point is, if you are able too maintain needed temperature, then they should be fine. Tarantulas are very strong too. My space heater went out over a weekend I was gone and I came back to a 65 degree room! My T's were all fine. No issues at all. Like I said though, buy temp/humidity gauges (I have both gauges for each tank! Overboard maybe) and just maintain a comfort level. If you can't handle 80 degrees at all times like I can, put them in a separate room or even a large closet you can heat.

 

[beckett5000]

Heat pads are fine to use if you can't keep your t's room around 80 degrees. You will want to put the pad on the side of the tank instead of under it. The t will regulate its temperature by moving closer or away from it.

 

[curiousme]

NEVER USE HEAT PADS! Period!

Did you take note of the location the OP is in? European homes are not always heated to the extent American homes are, so the OP may actually need the additional heating for his tarantula. However, most heatpads don't work well enough to make it worth the obscene amount they cost, most but not all. You say that they are just sold to line the pockets of pet stores, but at the same time you told this person to buy BOTH temp. and humidity gauges for a G. rosea. Neither are needed for this species and would just serve to line those same pockets.

As far as Ts dying from heatpads, please show me a thread where this has happened. I have heard this same advice given before, but have never read a thread where a T has died from a heatpad under the tank. In fact, for some NW spiders that survive through winter months, going down further means more warmth than the frozen ground close to the surface does.

---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 AM ----------

1. Can a spider come back from this?

Yes, they can regenerate legs, it will take a couple molts at least and with a G. rosea that could be a couple of years. The first molt they will partially be back, but little and gimpy.

2. What can I do to improve it's chances?

Make sure it always has a full water dish and once it is ready to eat you might need to pre-kill its prey. Since its pedipalps are still intact, it should be able to physically eat without too many problems.

3. Will it even be able to walk?

You tell us once it has hardened and tries. My guess is yes, it will be able to shuffle around.

4. Is my tank too big to allow humidity? It's a re-purposed rectangular fish tank. 1' wide, 2' long, 1.5' high. Roughly.

You don't have to worry about humidity with this species, so that is not a concern. However with a tank that large, it needs ALOT of substrate to make it safe for the T. The rule of thumb is there should only be a legspan and a half of open air between the top of the substrate and the top of the enclosure

5. Due to a harsh winter, I bought a heat pad, which is under the soil. To the touch, the soil above it is about as warm as a persons hand. This is where the spider molted. I've turned this heat pad off for now. On or off? In general, am I doing it wrong, using this heat pad?

When you say under the soil, do you mean inside the enclosure and buried under the substrate? If yes, take it out and attach it to the back of the tank instead. When you say harsh winter, what are the temps at inside your home in the room where the T is? We keep ours at 64F or so in the early winter and only about 69F once we turn our heat on, so you do NOT have to keep them at 80 degrees.

 

[Tym Hollerup]

Did you take note of the location the OP is in? European homes are not always heated to the extent American homes are, so the OP may actually need the additional heating for his tarantula. However, most heatpads don't work well enough to make it worth the obscene amount they cost, most but not all. You say that they are just sold to line the pockets of pet stores, but at the same time you told this person to buy BOTH temp. and humidity gauges for a G. rosea. Neither are needed for this species and would just serve to line those same pockets.

As far as Ts dying from heatpads, please show me a thread where this has happened. I have heard this same advice given before, but have never read a thread where a T has died from a heatpad under the tank. In fact, for some NW spiders that survive through winter months, going down further means more warmth than the frozen ground close to the surface does.

First off, my buying the gauges is in part my OCD. I have "special needs". Second, as for the heating pads killing a tarantula... Watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/Jon3800#p/u/162/7x1RRKgDJHU I get all of my Tarantula info from Jon. He is a God in the Tarantula world!!! And I refuse to believe otherwise. If he speaks it, I will listen. He's been in the hobby way longer than you or most others I'm assuming. He may look young, but with over 100 T's and 15+ years experience, I think he has a pretty good grasp on things. And perhaps you forgot I mentioned the idea of a space heater? They do sell those in Europe last I checked.

 

[curiousme]

First off, my buying the gauges is in part my OCD. I have "special needs".

Then please explain that before telling someone to buy gauges. Especially for a G. roesa that doesn't need a humidity gauge.

Second, as for the heating pads killing a tarantula... Watch this video.

I watched and all I heard was him saying not to use them because a tarantula died because it was packed too closely to a heat pack in shipping. That is not the same thing as putting a heatmat on the bottom of the tank. He didn't have any actual experience with a T dying from that practice and is just stating the same rhetoric that gets passed around here.

I get all of my Tarantula info from Jon. He is a God in the Tarantula world!!! And I refuse to believe otherwise. If he speaks it, I will listen. He's been in the hobby way longer than you or most others I'm assuming. He may look young, but with over 100 T's and 15+ years experience, I think he has a pretty good grasp on things.

I am glad you feel that way, but I do not in any way share that opinion of him. You are assuming wrong. There are many on this forum that have just as much experience and more. He has 100+ now, but only 3 years ago he had 36 and he is young, he was born in '82 and hasn't broken 30 yet. I much prefer to get my T knowledge from a much larger base of knowledge than ONE person. I assume that is why you are here on the forum as well.

And perhaps you forgot I mentioned the idea of a space heater? They do sell those in Europe last I checked.

You did, but that would mean you want the OP to throw away what might be a perfectly suitable heating source and spend ?$$ on a space heater.

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------

OP~ I just want to make sure which type of heating device we are talking about.

Does it come with a thermostat, can be cut to different lenghths and is called heat tape? Or is it just a black mat that was sticky on one side/ some other like this?

 

[Tym Hollerup]

I am glad you feel that way, but I do not in any way share that opinion of him. You are assuming wrong. There are many on this forum that have just as much experience and more. He has 100+ now, but only 3 years ago he had 36 and he is young, he was born in '82 and hasn't broken 30 yet. I much prefer to get my T knowledge from a much larger base of knowledge than ONE person. I assume that is why you are here on the forum as well.

That's exactly why I'm here. I do want to learn from others. I realize that Jon doesn't know EVERYTHING, however, coming into this hobby he is the first person I found on YouTube with any vast knowledge (I found RobC at a later date). Plus he is consistent with his videos. As for burrowing species, I have NO DOUBT that bottom placed heating mats could be very harmful due to the "hot spots" Jon mentioned. Debate this all you want, but it is my opinion that heat mats should NEVER be used or even needed if the owner takes other (and in MY OPINION) safe measures.
Is it just me or do I feel a love/hate type relationship coming on here? ;P

 

[curiousme]

That's exactly why I'm here. I do want to learn from others. I realize that Jon doesn't know EVERYTHING, however, coming into this hobby he is the first person I found on YouTube with any vast knowledge (I found RobC at a later date). Plus he is consistent with his videos. As for burrowing species, I have NO DOUBT that bottom placed heating mats could be very harmful due to the "hot spots" Jon mentioned. Debate this all you want, but it is my opinion that heat mats should NEVER be used or even needed if the owner takes other (and in MY OPINION) safe measures.
Is it just me or do I feel a love/hate type relationship coming on here? ;P

No, everyone has opinions and everyone is free to give them, but please state it as such. I still say until I see a thread where a tarantula was actually harmed by a heatmat under the enclosure, that it isn't a huge concern. It's not optimal, but not deadly. And heck, opinions are like kittens and I give 'em away!

 

[Lorum]

I realize that Jon doesn't know EVERYTHING, however, coming into this hobby he is the first person I found on YouTube with any vast knowledge (I found RobC at a later date).

I respect your opinion, but also I think that most people with vast knowledge doesn't have time to (or simply doesn't want to) make videos or tutorials about keeping theraphosids in captivity. I know many people love videos of Jon and ROBC, and is good that at least they (newbies) learn a bit watching them, but I don't really think that they are the only two "experienced" people in the hobby (not in the USA nor internationally). Is just something to think about.

 

[Embers To Ashes]

There are many people on this forum with diffrent veiws. I think that it will be benificial to the OP if we stop basing this on opentions and only post cold hard facts. I have never seen a case of a tarantula being killed by a heatpad. Im not saying that it is imposible, but very VERY unlikly. I have heard of many cases where keepers have had success with keeping a heatpad secured on the side of the enclosure.

The main reason this post even exists is so this keeper can get info on how to help his rosie. Nothing that has to do with a heat pad can make its legs grow back.

 

[sjl197]

Just to say, i had a Grammostola that lost all four front legs in a moult, after a while it learnt to walk around on its pedipalps, no problem. I fed it prekilled crickets for a while, and then after a few moults the legs had all regrown and it lived a long and happy life many years after.

Just keep it hydrated, try to feed with prekilled, and it stands a good chance to regrow all its legs.

Heat mats are no problem if used outside the tank, and better on the sides than underneath. Also give the spider options for temperature and humidity, so it can move towards or away from a hot dry side by the heatmat if it wishes. Shouldnt need to use heatmats in dublin in the summer, but in the winter yes, absolutely if the house heating is off sometimes.

Who are Jon and RobC anyway, and what exactly have they done for the hobby except made some utube videos? I just watched a vid by Jon3800, and not only are several of the species on substrate they are really not going to appreciate, he was trying to get small spiders to eat big crickets, just asking for trouble, but there you go. Spiders looked healthy though.

 

[fussgangerzone]

Spider Update

First of all, thanks everyone for your advice and feedback, it's much appreciated.

So, since Wednesday when Boris molted, he hadn't moved from where he molted. However, his positioning, with a few legs resting on the side of the tank, was normal for him.

This evening some time, he walked halfway across the tank. I didn't see him do it, but it's nice to see he's capable. He's resting beside his water dish, but I don't think he tried using it. The dish is at his 4 o clock.

For now, the plan is to keep an eye on him, and maybe try a pre/semi-killed feed with a cricket late next week.

Long-term, I'll change his tank around so I can have a lot more substrate, and a lot less air for him to fall out of. And if next winter I need the heat mat again, I'll stick on the outside with tinfoil on the outside for reflection. Arguments about the safety or otherwise of heat-mats aside, it probably makes more sense that way anyway.

Thanks again, and I'll let you all know how things develop.

ps: I call "him" Boris, but I haven't been able to sex him/her yet. The Who only have one song about a spider, and it's a male spider, so that's why I chose male as the default gender until I know better. Unsurprisingly, the cast-off skin isn't in good enough shape to give me any clues. And here's the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvFuUaCe8eY&feature=related

 

[curiousme]

I am glad it is doing better. Thank you for the update!

 

[fussgangerzone]

Spider Update 2

Tried the first pre-killed feed yesterday. Spider wasn't going for it, as was reacting in a very alert, energetic manner.

Initially, it would rear up, though not expose it's fangs. After a few minutes, I tried again, it was tracking the movement of the cricket, as I was moving it around with tongs, but didn't seem interested in feeding.

This morning it was on top of the cricket, though not in an obvious feeding position, I'll see later if I can get a look to see whether it fed or not.

Another thing I've notices is that earlier in the week, it was putting a bit of web down, sort of laying a trail around the tank.

Overall though, it seems to be responsive and looks quite healthy, so that's pretty good going.

As with sjl197's spider it's using it's pedipalps to move around, in place of it's front legs.