Frustrated newbie, any insight is very appreciated

[Emily76]

I am new to tarantulas but not to exotic pets. I got my first T, a sub-adult Tliltocatl albopilosus in Sept 2023. She is doing great and immediately sparked my interest in getting more. I followed up with a juvenile Grammostola pulchripes that someone needed to rehouse in Oct 2023. Then in Nov 2023 I got a juvenile Avicularia avicularia. A month later I pulled the trigger on a small Grammostola pulchra.

The T albo and G pulchra have each molted once in my care, both successfully. On March 1, 2024 I noticed my A avicularia behaving strangely, then noticed it on its back. I thought it was molting. A couple hours later, it was no longer on its back but was upright. Within another couple hours I noticed that it looked like it was in a death curl. I had never experienced this before but I had seen photos. Sure enough, it was dead. This T had been eating great for me taking dubias and mealworms off tongs about once a week since I got him in November, then the last meal he took was Jan 5, 2024. I thought the recent lack of appetite could be due to an upcoming molt, but he never molted. I'm upset and frustrated thinking I did something wrong. He had no trauma anywhere that I could tell. Abdomen was not shrunken at all.

In the wake of this loss, I made what I am realizing may have been a Very Bad Decision. I didn't want to drop a lot of money on another T but I found a Avicularia purpurea sling at the same local shop I got my T albo and A avic from. I got it this past Sunday and this morning it was dead. It only lasted 4 days. How could I have done something so wrong in 4 days? I have pics of its enclosure. I had the bottom layer of coconut fiber moist, the top dry, and a bottle cap as a water dish. It had good ventilation and a stick and cork bark to climb on. It had been moving around the enclosure exploring since I rehoused it from the container it came in the day after I got it. This sling was very tiny but I could tell it definitely did not have a shrunken abdomen.

I'm very upset about these two losses back to back and I'm desperate for any insight about what I could have done wrong, or to know that I might have not done anything wrong. I am very discouraged but I enjoy these creatures so much that I don't want to just give up keeping them. I keep my Ts in my snake room which is 75 degrees at all times. My snake room houses a dozen snakes of various sizes, each in their own enclosures. I also have a great number of different isopods, a couple hissing cockroaches, Blue death-feigning beetles, a jumping spider, and some millipedes.

Any help would be very greatly appreciated!!

Emily

 

[gabrieldezzi]

I am new to tarantulas but not to exotic pets. I got my first T, a sub-adult Tliltocatl albopilosus in Sept 2023. She is doing great and immediately sparked my interest in getting more. I followed up with a juvenile Grammostola pulchripes that someone needed to rehouse in Oct 2023. Then in Nov 2023 I got a juvenile Avicularia avicularia. A month later I pulled the trigger on a small Grammostola pulchra.

The T albo and G pulchra have each molted once in my care, both successfully. On March 1, 2024 I noticed my A avicularia behaving strangely, then noticed it on its back. I thought it was molting. A couple hours later, it was no longer on its back but was upright. Within another couple hours I noticed that it looked like it was in a death curl. I had never experienced this before but I had seen photos. Sure enough, it was dead. This T had been eating great for me taking dubias and mealworms off tongs about once a week since I got him in November, then the last meal he took was Jan 5, 2024. I thought the recent lack of appetite could be due to an upcoming molt, but he never molted. I'm upset and frustrated thinking I did something wrong. He had no trauma anywhere that I could tell. Abdomen was not shrunken at all.

In the wake of this loss, I made what I am realizing may have been a Very Bad Decision. I didn't want to drop a lot of money on another T but I found a Avicularia purpurea sling at the same local shop I got my T albo and A avic from. I got it this past Sunday and this morning it was dead. It only lasted 4 days. How could I have done something so wrong in 4 days? I have pics of its enclosure. I had the bottom layer of coconut fiber moist, the top dry, and a bottle cap as a water dish. It had good ventilation and a stick and cork bark to climb on. It had been moving around the enclosure exploring since I rehoused it from the container it came in the day after I got it. This sling was very tiny but I could tell it definitely did not have a shrunken abdomen.

I'm very upset about these two losses back to back and I'm desperate for any insight about what I could have done wrong, or to know that I might have not done anything wrong. I am very discouraged but I enjoy these creatures so much that I don't want to just give up keeping them. I keep my Ts in my snake room which is 75 degrees at all times. My snake room houses a dozen snakes of various sizes, each in their own enclosures. I also have a great number of different isopods, a couple hissing cockroaches, Blue death-feigning beetles, a jumping spider, and some millipedes.

Any help would be very greatly appreciated!!

Emily

So as for the avic sling, depending on the size, sometimes slings just don’t make it. Avics however, are fragile spiders and I’m wondering if a similar thing what happened to your Avic is the same that happened to a PsalmopoeusI had last summer. He was eating and all of a sudden I found him on his back, and when I came back later he was back upright and went to a death curl. He held on for a month before he died but I still to this day have no idea what happened (I suspected DKS because of other symptoms). Could we see pictures of these setups? Both avics?

 

[TLSizzle]

I wonder if it's just a stran of bad luck. Posting pics would help a lot.
Glad you're not giving up! It sounds like you have done your research which is great.

 

[Emily76]

So as for the avic sling, depending on the size, sometimes slings just don’t make it. Avics however, are fragile spiders and I’m wondering if a similar thing what happened to your Avic is the same that happened to a PsalmopoeusI had last summer. He was eating and all of a sudden I found him on his back, and when I came back later he was back upright and went to a death curl. He held on for a month before he died but I still to this day have no idea what happened (I suspected DKS because of other symptoms). Could we see pictures of these setups? Both avics?

I hope I am attaching these files correctly. The whole enclosure for the A purpurea is shown but only a photo of the underside of the A avic. I will have to see if I can find a pic of that enclosure but it was an Exo Terra Nano Tall with about 2 inches of coco fiber substrate, a tall piece of cork bark, a fake silk plant in the front and a fake plastic plant in the back. He had a small water dish on the bottom and also a magnetic ledge up high with a water dish.

I wonder if it's just a stran of bad luck. Posting pics would help a lot.
Glad you're not giving up! It sounds like you have done your research which is great.

I hope it is something as simple as just bad luck. I researched for a month before getting my first Veiled Chameleon and have successfully raised two from very small hatchlings and they are both almost 5 years old. I even have a fish!! haha How, then, can these spiders be so troublesome?

I'm not ready to give up. In fact, I contacted the pet shop and they are going to replace my A purpurea. I'm a little scared to take on another sling, but I'm definitely going to try my best. I guess I'm not as surprised at the sling dying unexpectedly, but on the heels of the A avic death when he seemed so fine and healthy is a huge blow.

 

[gabrieldezzi]

I hope I am attaching these files correctly. The whole enclosure for the A purpurea is shown but only a photo of the underside of the A avic. I will have to see if I can find a pic of that enclosure but it was an Exo Terra Nano Tall with about 2 inches of coco fiber substrate, a tall piece of cork bark, a fake silk plant in the front and a fake plastic plant in the back. He had a small water dish on the bottom and also a magnetic ledge up high with a water dish.

I see nothing wrong with the second, enclosure. How about the first one? The one with the juvenile pink toe?

 

[Emily76]

I see nothing wrong with the second, enclosure. How about the first one? The one with the juvenile pink toe?

I don't think I have pics of the whole thing when it was housing him. I gutted it and cleaned it real well out of fear that it had something harmful in it, although I have no idea what that could be. Here is a pic of it empty. It is an Exo Terra Nano Tall and it had a magnetic water dish up high, one on the bottom, and about 2 inches of mostly dry coco fiber substrate. I do not believe he was dehydrated as his abdomen was not at all shrunken when he died.

 

[gabrieldezzi]

I don't think I have pics of the whole thing when it was housing him. I gutted it and cleaned it real well out of fear that it had something harmful in it, although I have no idea what that could be. Here is a pic of it empty. It is an Exo Terra Nano Tall and it had a magnetic water dish up high, one on the bottom, and about 2 inches of mostly dry coco fiber substrate. I do not believe he was dehydrated as his abdomen was not at all shrunken when he died.

Yeah I see nothing wrong with this enclosure either. I’m confused as well.

Edit: My second glance has showed me the big skull and crossbones. That ventilation and pesky lid!!

 

[Emily76]

Yeah I see nothing wrong with this enclosure either. I’m confused as well.

Local pet shop in Wichita, KS that I get most of my feeders (insect and rodent) from. I also have a California Kingsnake that I bought there as well as a Mexican Black Kingsnake that are thriving and getting big. I can't imagine it would be any sort of error on their behalf. I contacted them earlier today and they are going to replace the A purpurea, but I'm nervous about it. I'm pretty gutted about these deaths, but of course I'm going to do my absolute best for the next little one. I just hope my best is enough this time! I wish there was a way to know what went wrong, but if I know it was something out of my control, then I guess it is a bit less painful, although not by much.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I hope I am attaching these files correctly. The whole enclosure for the A purpurea is shown but only a photo of the underside of the A avic. I will have to see if I can find a pic of that enclosure but it was an Exo Terra Nano Tall with about 2 inches of coco fiber substrate, a tall piece of cork bark, a fake silk plant in the front and a fake plastic plant in the back. He had a small water dish on the bottom and also a magnetic ledge up high with a water dish.



I hope it is something as simple as just bad luck. I researched for a month before getting my first Veiled Chameleon and have successfully raised two from very small hatchlings and they are both almost 5 years old. I even have a fish!! haha How, then, can these spiders be so troublesome?

I'm not ready to give up. In fact, I contacted the pet shop and they are going to replace my A purpurea. I'm a little scared to take on another sling, but I'm definitely going to try my best. I guess I'm not as surprised at the sling dying unexpectedly, but on the heels of the A avic death when he seemed so fine and healthy is a huge blow.

That might be a mature male in the first pic.

 

[Emily76]

That might be a mature male in the first pic.

Wow really? Some people on a FB group told me it looked like a female haha and I have literally no clue how to sex these creatures. Do pink toes stay quite small? It wasn't very big at all. (PS I am also bad at knowing how to appropriately describe the size of a T.)

 

[Arachnopets]

Welcome to AB and the wonderful world of tarantula keeping!


Seeing as you are new to tarantula keeping, please see this link for some helpful insight:

Tarantula Information for Beginners (and More)

Below are some helpful resources. (Rather than having half a dozen or more pinned threads, which clutter the top of the board, we are pinning this index.) While the focus is on beginners, there are other threads on health and more advanced species that may be useful to more experienced keepers...

arachnoboards.com

With avics, in specific, please see this informative thread by @viper69 :

Avicularia Husbandry?

Hi! I'm new to the forum and am unsure if this is the right place for this, but I was wondering if there's anything I should know in advance before purchasing an Avicularia genus? (specifically, I have my eye on some a. metallica slings) I've done some reading, but being that I've only ever had...

arachnoboards.com

Hopefully you will find the above links helpful.


At a quick glance of the enclosure for your juvenile pink toe, I notice a severe lack of ventilation (top and bottom, to provide proper air flow). Stuffy enclosures are notorious death traps for avics.

In addition, is that a mesh lid? Hard for me to tell from the angle of the picture. From a husbandry perspective, mesh lids are not preferred as their tarsal claws (on their feet) can easily get stuck.


If after you have read through the above links, you still have additional concerns, please come back here and let us know with specific questions. The members on here will be more than happy to try and assist you further.

With proper husbandry, you CAN be successful! Please take comfort knowing that you are in the right place to get help and guidance.

 

[gabrieldezzi]

Wow really? Some people on a FB group told me it looked like a female haha and I have literally no clue how to sex these creatures. Do pink toes stay quite small? It wasn't very big at all. (PS I am also bad at knowing how to appropriately describe the size of a T.)

I have a subadult female pink toe about 4 inches across. They can get up to 6 inches across though. (DLS)

4” DLS Avic Regina :)

• gabrieldezzi
• Feb 19, 2024

Avic avic (Regina) with a midnight snack.

• gabrieldezzi
• Feb 23, 2024
• 3

She never usually sits this long for pictures she’s a busy woman. Her schedule consists of...

That might be a mature male in the first pic.

Yeah hold on, I thought I saw emboli. @Emily76 , do you have any other pics of the guy? More specifically his pedipalps? (Front two legs closest to mouth, usually shorter).

Welcome to AB and the wonderful world of tarantula keeping!


Seeing as you are new to tarantula keeping, please see this link for some helpful insight:

Tarantula Information for Beginners (and More)

Below are some helpful resources. (Rather than having half a dozen or more pinned threads, which clutter the top of the board, we are pinning this index.) While the focus is on beginners, there are other threads on health and more advanced species that may be useful to more experienced keepers...

arachnoboards.com

With avics, in specific, please see this informative thread by @viper69 :

Avicularia Husbandry?

Hi! I'm new to the forum and am unsure if this is the right place for this, but I was wondering if there's anything I should know in advance before purchasing an Avicularia genus? (specifically, I have my eye on some a. metallica slings) I've done some reading, but being that I've only ever had...

arachnoboards.com

Hopefully you will find the above links helpful.


At a quick glance of the enclosure for your juvenile pink toe, I notice a severe lack of ventilation (top and bottom, to provide proper air flow). Stuffy enclosures are notorious death traps for avics.

In addition, is that a mesh lid? Hard for me to tell from the angle of the picture. From a husbandry perspective, mesh lids are not preferred as their tarsal claws (on their feet) can easily get stuck.


If after you have read through the above links, you still have additional concerns, please come back here and let us know with specific questions. The members on here will be more than happy to try and assist you further.

With proper husbandry, you CAN be successful! Please take comfort knowing that you are in the right place to get help and guidance.

Critical error on my hand. Missed the mesh lid AND the ventilation when trying to give an explanation..

 

[cold blood]

Now the angle isn't ideal, but that first avic sure looks like it could be a mature male....which would easily explain the death as this would be the end of the ine.....males can mature quite small, often before we expect.....not saying this for sure, just speculating, but it suuuuure appears so.

Now the purpurea....if you ever have any questions or potential struggles with avics, the LAST one you should ever get is a purpurea sling. They are by far the most sensitive to their conditions, they have a terrible prey drive and are about the slowest growing arboreal I can think of, which means they stay in that fragile sling state longer than any other arboreal.

Now, because they start out so small and are such poor eaters, I will always suggest a much smaller home....like a 4-6oz condiment cup...the largest I would go is a 16oz deli......the smaller enclosure will encourage webbing faster (and more significant) as well as keeping the predator-prey interaction at a maximum level.

Sorry for the losses.....if the first was a male, you may have very well done nothing wrong, as I see no critical housing errors....but I do think you should reconsider another purpurea sling....by all means get another avic, just get a different species....a Y. versicolor would be your best choice IMO as they tend to have one of the better feeding responses, fastest growth and tend to be the hardiest when small.

 

[Emily76]

Welcome to AB and the wonderful world of tarantula keeping!


Seeing as you are new to tarantula keeping, please see this link for some helpful insight:

Tarantula Information for Beginners (and More)

Below are some helpful resources. (Rather than having half a dozen or more pinned threads, which clutter the top of the board, we are pinning this index.) While the focus is on beginners, there are other threads on health and more advanced species that may be useful to more experienced keepers...

arachnoboards.com

With avics, in specific, please see this informative thread by @viper69 :

Avicularia Husbandry?

Hi! I'm new to the forum and am unsure if this is the right place for this, but I was wondering if there's anything I should know in advance before purchasing an Avicularia genus? (specifically, I have my eye on some a. metallica slings) I've done some reading, but being that I've only ever had...

arachnoboards.com

Hopefully you will find the above links helpful.


At a quick glance of the enclosure for your juvenile pink toe, I notice a severe lack of ventilation (top and bottom, to provide proper air flow). Stuffy enclosures are notorious death traps for avics.

In addition, is that a mesh lid? Hard for me to tell from the angle of the picture. From a husbandry perspective, mesh lids are not preferred as their tarsal claws (on their feet) can easily get stuck.


If after you have read through the above links, you still have additional concerns, please come back here and let us know with specific questions. The members on here will be more than happy to try and assist you further.

With proper husbandry, you CAN be successful! Please take comfort knowing that you are in the right place to get help and guidance.

I appreciate the links! Thank you. I did not go into keeping these creatures completely blind. I did do a lot of reading beforehand and continue to do so. Admittedly, a lot of exotic pet husbandry is not only downright wrong, but also conflicting. For example, I was reviewing the link titled Avicularia care, and the exact enclosure that I had mine in (Exo Terra Nano Tall) is not only pictured, but also referenced in the comments as being not problematic. I got my A avic in Nov 2023. It is wintertime where I am, and I have my snake room at a constant 75 degrees. It is not humid at all, and I did not mist him, so I find it difficult to believe that it was too stuffy? My temp/humidity monitor shows that room has an average of 34.8% humidity. The highest my humidity has been in there since Nov is 44%. I know there was never any condensation or any sign of moisture in the enclosure.

I am more than willing to admit that I could be wrong or that I incorrectly assessed the information available to me, but I read that this enclosure was safe for this species before getting it. There is ventilation at the top and several inches from the bottom. In fact, I was reluctant to cover the top screen with acrylic (and ultimately decided not to) simply because I was worried about ventilation. Please understand that I am confused and want to do right by these spiders. Should I no longer consider using this enclosure for an arboreal tarantula?

 

[cold blood]

At a quick glance of the enclosure for your juvenile pink toe, I notice a severe lack of ventilation (top and bottom, to provide proper air flow)

its an exo terra, so it will have venting below the doors as well as the top, this actually promotes airflow very well and is akin to what is the most popular style they use in Europe.

 

[NMTs]

Someone sold you a mature male Avic. There's no telling how old it was or how long it had been mature, but it's pretty unlikely you did anything to cause it's death. The eat infrequently and usually die within a year after maturing.

 

[gabrieldezzi]

I appreciate the links! Thank you. I did not go into keeping these creatures completely blind. I did do a lot of reading beforehand and continue to do so. Admittedly, a lot of exotic pet husbandry is not only downright wrong, but also conflicting. For example, I was reviewing the link titled Avicularia care, and the exact enclosure that I had mine in (Exo Terra Nano Tall) is not only pictured, but also referenced in the comments as being not problematic. I got my A avic in Nov 2023. It is wintertime where I am, and I have my snake room at a constant 75 degrees. It is not humid at all, and I did not mist him, so I find it difficult to believe that it was too stuffy? My temp/humidity monitor shows that room has an average of 34.8% humidity. The highest my humidity has been in there since Nov is 44%. I know there was never any condensation or any sign of moisture in the enclosure.

I am more than willing to admit that I could be wrong or that I incorrectly assessed the information available to me, but I read that this enclosure was safe for this species before getting it. There is ventilation at the top and several inches from the bottom. In fact, I was reluctant to cover the top screen with acrylic (and ultimately decided not to) simply because I was worried about ventilation. Please understand that I am confused and want to do right by these spiders. Should I no longer consider using this enclosure for an arboreal tarantula?

There is unfortunately, a lot of conflicting information in the tarantula community on husbandry. Fortunately, I have found this forum to be a very reliable source of information, especially the links that the moderator posted above. Of course, it is important to understand that us as humans are going to make mistakes, and the point is we should move on and do better. With Avics though, its strange because I see them as the most commonly dead T's on this forum, and pretty much each case is this conflicting information / poor husbandry. I can tell you're going to give the next T you recieve a great life, so no reason to be worried. Sorry for your losses overall, and I hope another 8-legged angel comes your way.

Someone sold you a mature male Avic. There's no telling how old it was or how long it had been mature, but it's pretty unlikely you did anything to cause it's death. The eat infrequently and usually die within a year after maturing.

So my eyes didn't deceive me.. emboli ahoy!!

 

[Emily76]

I have a subadult female pink toe about 4 inches across. They can get up to 6 inches across though. (DLS)

4” DLS Avic Regina :)

• gabrieldezzi
• Feb 19, 2024

Avic avic (Regina) with a midnight snack.

• gabrieldezzi
• Feb 23, 2024
• 3

She never usually sits this long for pictures she’s a busy woman. Her schedule consists of...

Yeah hold on, I thought I saw emboli. @Emily76 , do you have any other pics of the guy? More specifically his pedipalps? (Front two legs closest to mouth, usually shorter).



Critical error on my hand. Missed the mesh lid AND the ventilation when trying to give an explanation..

I appreciate the correction. I really try to do the best research I can before bringing an animal into my care. I do not take the responsibility lightly, which is why I'm so desperate for help.


Sadly, I do not think this picture will be any more useful. I would say he was maybe 2.5 - 3 inches diagonally across?

its an exo terra, so it will have venting below the doors as well as the top, this actually promotes airflow very well and is akin to what is the most popular style they use in Europe.

Thank you for weighing in on the enclosure, I really appreciate it!

 

[cold blood]

Sadly, I do not think this picture will be any more useful.

it actually is...the emboli are visible...definitely a mature male.

 

[Emily76]

Now the angle isn't ideal, but that first avic sure looks like it could be a mature male....which would easily explain the death as this would be the end of the ine.....males can mature quite small, often before we expect.....not saying this for sure, just speculating, but it suuuuure appears so.

Now the purpurea....if you ever have any questions or potential struggles with avics, the LAST one you should ever get is a purpurea sling. They are by far the most sensitive to their conditions, they have a terrible prey drive and are about the slowest growing arboreal I can think of, which means they stay in that fragile sling state longer than any other arboreal.

Well, crap. haha Maybe they will let me deduct the price of this one from the cost of another one that is not so temperamental. I appreciate your honesty.

Now, because they start out so small and are such poor eaters, I will always suggest a much smaller home....like a 4-6oz condiment cup...the largest I would go is a 16oz deli......the smaller enclosure will encourage webbing faster (and more significant) as well as keeping the predator-prey interaction at a maximum level.

Sorry for the losses.....if the first was a male, you may have very well done nothing wrong, as I see no critical housing errors....but I do think you should reconsider another purpurea sling....by all means get another avic, just get a different species....a Y. versicolor would be your best choice IMO as they tend to have one of the better feeding responses, fastest growth and tend to be the hardiest when small.

Thank you, I will see if I can avoid another A purpurea, but if I have to get the same species I will of course do my best.

Attached is a pic of the container the sling came in next to the one I put him in.

it actually is...the emboli are visible...definitely a mature male.

Thank you so much. So this is likely just a natural death? And I don't have to lose sleep over it? haha