From Bad to Worse: Herniated Booklung...Suggestions? (Pics Inside)

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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Well the H. lividum from the previous thread ended up molting, but now it looks like it has a herniated booklung, any suggestions as to what I could do for her? I am trying my best not to disturb her, but any suggestion on any way I could help her through this would be great.



 

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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So at this point this is what I am thinking:

She started to molt
The booklung wouldn't molt properly and tore (this caused the bulge, leaking)
The stress caused the molt to interrupt and would be why she moved around
She finished the molt upright, despite the ruined booklung.

My options as I see them:
  1. Cover the damaged booklung with liquid bandaid to prevent further damage and infection, and hope another molt will repair the damage
  2. Do nothing, wait and see what happens.
  3. Euthanize her.

Any suggestions?
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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I'd go with option 2 at this point. Nothing you can really do, and if it's not leaking, I wouldn't try to seal it.

Next molt will either repair it or kill her, imo.
 

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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I'd go with option 2 at this point. Nothing you can really do, and if it's not leaking, I wouldn't try to seal it.

Next molt will either repair it or kill her, imo.
My biggest worry at this point (other than her dying from stress) is the possibility of infection. Do you think I should switch to a drier set up (after she hardens) and maintain that way until her next molt (assuming she lasts) to minimize this? Thanks for the suggestion
 

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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Well she's flipped over already (it's only been around 2 hours since she actually began the upright molt) and has moved away from the molting site so I got the molt out to get pictures in case anyone was curious.



 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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That's a female. :}

Ok, so regarding the concern for infection...I'd still just let her do her thing and see if it all hardens up, or if it stays wet.

I'm sure she wouldn't be happy, but it might be in her best interest to give her a dry setup until she molts again, or at least until you can better assess how she's handling the injury.

It's interesting that you can also see the issue with the booklung in her molt. Makes me wonder what happened to cause it, and how long it's been herniated.

Good luck with her, I'll be following this thread closely.

--Joe
 

captmarga

Arachnobaron
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By a dry setup... do you mean a dry tank with perhaps some PVC to make a hide and tunnel for her? She's not my T, but my mind is racing in circles.

If it didn't have drawing properties (like a poultice) my personal thought would be to put comfrey root powder on the wound. It acts as an artificial scab. I've used it on myself and on my animals, but not on this kind of wound. Would a tiny gauze patch and new-skin work better than just new-skin?

Trying to wrap my head around this kind of injury in a T. Hoping out for the best for her.

Marga
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Dry tank = dry everything, especially substrate. Minimizes the chance of infection.

New-skin by itself would work fine - no gauze necessary.

I still think waiting is the best option at this point.
 

Fran

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....
Man, that is really bad luck :(.

Thats a clear open wound, and it looks like shes absolutely expose to her insides...
What I would do is to let her harden up on a "steril" enviroment.
It might sounds funny, but an ICU type thing, no substrate slight moisture , or just acces to a water dish but thats about it.
No dirt,no nothing else.

Put her on a dark place, no disturbance and really wait to see how she spends the first days.
If that somehow dries up, then reconsider rehousing her, but at that point anything that touches that means infection.
 
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pato_chacoana

Arachnoangel
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Ouch! :(
I would put the spider on a clean enclosure with moist tissue paper (as Fran said), let her harden up, then anesthetize the spider, clean the injury area, saw the wound (or cover the wound) to avoid infections/pathogens.

Good luck,
Pato
 

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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At this point (right after she flipped) she's gone back down her burrow, which is very deep. The burrow is web-lined, so she isn't touching substrate. At this point I am going to let her harden for a few days before I do anything. She has already touched substrate to the wound, and I am afraid that by trying to dig her up I will injure her (from the fresh molt) or cause her to tear the wound open more. After a day or two I will attempt to move her to a more sterile enclosure, and likely will attempt to apply some antibacterial salve to the wound.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and ideas, as well as the words of encouragement.
 

curiousme

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We had a T that had what looked like herniated book lungs, but we didn't see them until after she had hardened up; so I don't know if they looked like yours when wet. She also had no hair on the ventral side of the abdomen either, so it isn't exactly the same. We ended up feeding her sparsely and increasing her ventilation to try and account for the multiple book lungs that didn't appear to be in working order, until we got her through the next molt and she has been fine since. That was in 6-2009, but she was a small juvie at the occurrence.

I would also say #2, because the risk of injury multiplies if you have try and dig it up, and then anesthetize, and then add liquid bandaid IMO. Best of luck to you though, it looks heart attack inducing. I hope all turns out well.
 

Travis K

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Judging by the exuvea I would say she had issues previous to molting and that said issue was expounded by the molt. I would say leave it be maybe do a sterile ICU, but if you were to use liquid bandage on her it might disrupt the next molt more than letting it alone.

Good luck,
 

AbraCadaver

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Oh poor baby :(

You've gotten great advice here, so I haven't much to add, but I'm crossing my fingers for her.
 

Musicwolf

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Slightly off the topic, but if she acts "normal" once she's hardened up, I'd say it clearly demonstrates that Ts don't feel "pain" - let's face it - that looks painful. If it were me, I'd definitely take the leave it alone and let's hope she can pull through this approach. I'm afraid trying to seal it would do more harm than good in the long run.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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Slightly off the topic, but if she acts "normal" once she's hardened up, I'd say it clearly demonstrates that Ts don't feel "pain" - let's face it - that looks painful. .
:)
that would not demonstrate absolutely nothing.
 

Musicwolf

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:)
that would not demonstrate absolutely nothing.
I agree :razz: As I said, it clearly would demonstrate something (j/k Fran - playing on English not being your first language).

Now, just to clarify - I didn't say it would "prove" anything, but I do believe that if a T can act normally with an injury like that, it would demonstrate that it is not in pain - which it should be if it could feel what we would call "pain." The opposite is not true at all though, if it doesn't act normally, it doesn't mean that it is in "pain" - it could be due to a lot of other things relating to the injury.
 

robd

Arachnobaron
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Dang Will! That sucks man. Is this the one you were hoping to breed?
 

flamesbane

Arachnobaron
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We had a T that had what looked like herniated book lungs, but we didn't see them until after she had hardened up; so I don't know if they looked like yours when wet. She also had no hair on the ventral side of the abdomen either, so it isn't exactly the same. We ended up feeding her sparsely and increasing her ventilation to try and account for the multiple book lungs that didn't appear to be in working order, until we got her through the next molt and she has been fine since. That was in 6-2009, but she was a small juvie at the occurrence.

I would also say #2, because the risk of injury multiplies if you have try and dig it up, and then anesthetize, and then add liquid bandaid IMO. Best of luck to you though, it looks heart attack inducing. I hope all turns out well.
Currently I am leaving her alone, she acting as normally as a freshly molted Tarantula can. I am going to wait til she hardens up then move her to a more sterile enclosure.


Judging by the exuvea I would say she had issues previous to molting and that said issue was expounded by the molt. I would say leave it be maybe do a sterile ICU, but if you were to use liquid bandage on her it might disrupt the next molt more than letting it alone.

Good luck,
That's kind of hard to say. From what I can see it appears that the "cover" that sits over the top of the booklung became stuck and pulled off, exposing the booklung. I am not going to put any liquid band-aid on the wound itself unless I run out of other options.

Dang Will! That sucks man. Is this the one you were hoping to breed?
Yeah, it was. Hopefully she'll pull through this.


Thanks again for the encouragements and ideas everyone.
 
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