Freshly Set-up C. Versicolor Enclosure. Let Me Know What You Think...

[MrGhostMantis]

This isn’t a “my way” or the highway.

This is about facts. I used to use screen, I stopped immediately once my M6 was getting stuck.

You are dealing with an animal’s life that has zero decision in how it lives- it’s all on you.
Whatever “pros/cons” you claim have nothing to do with you, and everything to do with another animal’s life.

Second- What are the pros and cons your research has provided you?

We are willing to see what data you have to support the pro of using screen and whatever cons exist for acrylic etc

Your chance to prove us all wrong- show is the data!

It’s like seatbelts- people wear them to prevent injury and death. Do they know they will die etc one day driving with or without NOPE. But smart people don’t take that risk.

Using a screen is no different than not using a seatbelt. It’s a risk to the life of an animal.

If you’re willing to risk an animal’s life you have real issues.

But let’s see your data!?

Fantastic explanation. 1000% agree.

 

[viper69]

Fantastic explanation. 1000% agree.

Thanks! I don’t get people coming in here saying there are pros to screen re T health.

It’s the stupidest thing I chronically read on here after SADS

 

[MrGhostMantis]

Thanks! I don’t get people coming in here saying there are pros to screen re T health.

It’s the stupidest thing I chronically read on here.

Especially when they decide they are 100% right and can ignore your advice after asking if the enclosure is ok.

 

[viper69]

Especially when they decide they are 100% right and can ignore your advice after asking if the enclosure is ok.

True! Then promise to never come back-so what, who cares!

I’d rather read their research that helped them form such a conclusion!!!!!

 

[8 legged]

Just finished cluttering up my c. versicolor enclosure. Tell me what you think....

View attachment 392894
View attachment 392895

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From a purely psychological point of view, it is clear what you want to hear. Due to your responsibility, you will not hear how great you did it, because as already mentioned several times:
- Change the cover
- Make space for the hunt
And a personal thing: plastic always looks stupid!
You can ignore everything except that with the lid. However, you can learn that the hard way if necessary - don't worry, nothing will happen, only the animal in your care will lose a leg...

 

[Neonblizzard]

- Asks a question on AB

- Get's free, solicited and reasonable critique from experienced keepers

- Doesn't coincide with own view

- Cannot provide evidence for own view

- I'm leaving omg AB is full of elitist jerks

- Premolt?????

 

[YungRasputin]

this entire back and forth is silly -establishing a fact is much different than the claim of a fact

both sides seem to be like “oh yeah! well what about (insert speculative personal anecdote) ” like that’s not actually establishing a fact - that’s observing a particular phenomena within the history of your keeping without establishing frequency, controls, environmental factors, likelihood, etc

if people say they have resources for either side I wish to see them (no, videos or personal stories don’t count, i want actual studies, experiments, etc)

this being said, acrylic is obviously the “better safe than sorry” route and it doesn’t take a whole lot to switch over; the enclosure looks p alright; I would consider Cold Blood’s advice about providing a more open hunting space on the floor of the enclosure

 

[viper69]

like that’s not actually establishing a fact - that’s observing a particular phenomena within the history of your keeping without establishing frequency, controls, environmental factors, likelihood, etc

Except Ts getting caught in screen is not a phenomena, i.e. it’s not unexplainable.
We know why it happens

So unless someone can provide all the info above to you for any topic, you would ignore the suggested approach?

if people say they have resources for either side I wish to see them (no, videos or personal stories don’t count, i want actual studies, experiments, etc)

You’re expectations are delusional for this topic.

“Studies” for Ts getting caught on screen? That’s a joke.

Videos do not count as evidence? That’s some crazy “thinking” I guess we never landed on the moon!

I’d never hire you as a lawyer hahah

>99.99% of the knowledge on here is observed/reported without your strict criteria.

I’m not sure how you find this site or any other site helpful. As no one is posting studies of their anecdotal data.

 

[YungRasputin]

Except Ts getting caught in screen is not a phenomena, i.e. it’s not unexplainable.


So unless someone can provide all the info above to you for any topic, you would ignore the suggested approach?

no, of course not, acrylic tops is a logical solution to the possibility of this occurring; i said in my original comment that is in observed phenomena and that it can occur

my criticism was moreso about the argumentation being used by both sides of this thread which weren’t actually establishing fact

I’ve been keeping arachnids for 26 years and in that time i have always used screen tops and it wasn’t until this year did I begin to make the switch - in this time this has never happened to me once

but that’s just my experience and exactly the point of my original comment - logically, I can’t just use my experience to make any claims about screens nor does my own experience negate the negative experiences of others

so why did I make the switch? because the possibility of it occurring is enough for me, it’s sound advice imo

 

[viper69]

no, of course not, acrylic tops is a logical solution to the possibility of this occurring; i said in my original comment that is in observed phenomena and that it can occur

my criticism was moreso about the argumentation being used by both sides of this thread which weren’t actually establishing fact

I’ve been keeping arachnids for 26 years and in that time i have always used screen tops and it wasn’t until this year did I begin to make the switch - in this time this has never happened to me once

but that’s just my experience and exactly the point of my original comment - logically, I can’t just use my experience to make any claims about screens nor does my own experience negate the negative experiences of others

so why did I make the switch? because the possibility of it occurring is enough for me, it’s sound advice imo

Now I see— your original response had me laughing.

I was the same - always used screen- except in my case it didn’t take 26 yrs for it to happen here.

Thank you for the helpful clarification!

 

[Dorifto]

Here you have an evidence, that's a terrestrial, but I believe that the arboreals have fangs too...

As a newbie in the hobby anyone can make mistakes, but the thing is to learn from other's mistakes, instead of wayting for something bad to happen.



I didn't made my homeworks, and almost learned it the hard way.

 

[MrGhostMantis]

Here you have an evidence, that's a terrestrial, but I believe that arboreala have fangs too...

As a newbie in the hobby anyone can make mistakes, but the thing is to learn from other's mistakes, instead of wayting for something bad to happen.
View attachment 393036

I didn't made my homeworks, and almost learned it the hard way.

Oh god a fang is stuck too!

 

[YungRasputin]

You’re expectations are delusional for this topic.

prove it

“Studies” for Ts getting caught on screen? That’s a joke.

do you always interpret what you read so literally or what? I’m aware and was aware when writing my comment that such studies do not exist and it was an outlandish thing to suggest yes, and was, rhetorically, meant to highlight that the argumentation isn’t actually establish X as a “fact” in the strictest sense

Videos do not count as evidence? That’s some crazy “thinking” I guess we never landed on the moon!

it’s really not hard to pick up what I’m putting down so what’s the issue here?

I’d never hire you as a lawyer hahah

ok

>99.99% of the knowledge on here is observed/reported without your strict criteria.

what I’m talking about is basic substantiation of claims

I’m not sure how you find this site or any other site helpful. As no one is posting studies of their anecdotal data.

this site can be useful, but, arrogantly presenting a claim as fact without establishing that fact through proper substantiation is just silly - it’s one thing to say, “based on collective experiences there is a possibility that X may occur and because of this existence of this possibility Y is recommend and is considered to be the best practice for Z” and another to say “this is an established fact that has been proven through scientific/clinical methods”

 

[Dorifto]

Oh god a fang is stuck too!

Yep, after that I passed like one month learning all about the pulchra, to make the best enclosure possible. And it worked perfectly

 

[viper69]

prove it

I provided an opinion based on what I read.

do you always interpret what you read so literally or what?

Yes. I can only go by what is written. I do my best not to imply additional meaning to the writer's words. My line of work requires objectivity so it's a habit.

it’s really not hard to pick up what I’m putting down so what’s the issue here?

I get your claim vs fact stuff. I felt what you wrote about establishing a fact was overboard. When I read it your typed words it seemed you expected such extensive data, ie studies haha. Otherwise why mention it at all was my thought.

There was a time many, many years ago on the board where "everyone" was looking for a gotcha moment. Someone would report an observation or speculate on something, and someone would reply with "show me the data". It was highly stupid of people to expect data on virtually 90% or more of the things people were writing about. Your post seemed to fall into that time period at AB.

what I’m talking about is basic substantiation of claims

Correct

this site can be useful, but, arrogantly presenting a claim as fact without establishing that fact through proper substantiation is just silly - it’s one thing to say, “based on collective experiences there is a possibility that X may occur and because of this existence of this possibility Y is recommend and is considered to be the best practice for Z” and another to say “this is an established fact that has been proven through scientific/clinical methods”

It's also silly to expect everyone to write their thoughts in the most specific manner on a forum. Would it be better to write as you did in your quoted phrases for better delivery/represenation of the message of course! Will it happen- NEVER. This is not a scientific forum, and the overwhelming majority of people do not have the time, nor the inclination to write in that manner.

If someone sees a T stuck in screen, particularly something that happens not just once- writing "Ts can get caught in screen, you should remove it" Which is generally how I see people it, is not arrogant, nor is it a claim that is up for dispute. It's a fact. Does it mean ALL Ts will, NOPE. But it's still a fact that they can even without all the criteria you mentioned earlier.

 

[YungRasputin]

I provided an opinion based on what I read.

fair enough

Yes. I can only go by what is written. I do my best not to imply additional meaning to the writer's words. My line of work requires objectivity so it's a habit.

reasonable position

I get your claim vs fact stuff. I felt what you wrote about establishing a fact was overboard. When I read it your typed words it seemed you expected such extensive data, ie studies haha. Otherwise why mention it at all was my thought.

this is perhaps my fault - i am not the best at conveying my thoughts in English and also, I rhetorically use logical absurdities to underscore discursive points without fully explaining everything; I work on it but that’s my bad habit

There was a time many, many years ago on the board where "everyone" was looking for a gotcha moment. Someone would report an observation or speculate on something, and someone would reply with "show me the data". It was highly stupid of people to expect data on virtually 90% or more of the things people were writing about. Your post seemed to fall into that time period at AB.

I can understand that, and I would agree that this is rather silly and illogical

It's also silly to expect everyone to write their thoughts in the most specific manner on a forum. Would it be better to write as you did in your quoted phrases for better delivery/represenation of the message of course! Will it happen- NEVER. This is not a scientific forum, and the overwhelming majority of people do not have the time, nor the inclination to write in that manner.

I understand that and I understand the limitations of this platform perfectly and it’s input however at the same time, I’m of the mindset of “if you shoot for the moon, at the very least you’ll end up half way” - this whole exchange is a perfect example of this (phenomena-> logical response-> informal standard->collective consensus)

I feel too that perhaps what I suggest comes off as expecting something which is unrealistic when the opposite is true; the scientific method and so on does not have to be some big brain, ultra complicated thing - we use such things in the hobby on a rudimentary level all the time

If someone sees a T stuck in screen, particularly something that happens not just once- writing "Ts can get caught in screen, you should remove it" Which is generally how I see people it, is not arrogant, nor is it a claim that is up for dispute. It's a fact. Does it mean ALL Ts will, NOPE. But it's still a fact that they can even without all the criteria you mentioned earlier.

it’s a fact that it’s a possibility - what’s in dispute is likelihood, frequency, etc - this remains to be fully established in a clinical sense however for our purposes in the hobby the possibility should be enough to motivate responsible keepers to provide the modified acrylic tops to their enclosures

 

[viper69]

what’s in dispute is likelihood, frequency, etc

Very true- and that's the issue I have with people who say things like "I've never seen it", "it's never happened to me" etc Simply because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or not happen in the future.

I see things differently than the above phrases I quoted. Given many people report this observation, even if it didn't happen to me, I'd switch out to acrylic.

The animals are in my care, their lives depend upon my interest etc. Basically on this issue I feel people are just damn lazy to do the change out. After all, if you switch to acrylic how is that a BAD thing....

Your command of the English language is quite excellent for someone who is not a native speaker of English. I've seen you mention this before, and I've never thought you weren't a native speaker.

 

[YungRasputin]

Very true- and that's the issue I have with people who say things like "I've never seen it", "it's never happened to me" etc Simply because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or not happen in the future.

I see things differently than the above phrases I quoted. Given many people report this observation, even if it didn't happen to me, I'd switch out to acrylic.

The animals are in my care, their lives depend upon my interest etc. Basically on this issue I feel people are just damn lazy to do the change out. After all, if you switch to acrylic how is that a BAD thing....

this is v true and I personally don’t understand it because that sort of thing is genuinely fun, it’s the fun part so why not do this

Your command of the English language is quite excellent for someone who is not a native speaker of English. I've seen you mention this before, and I've never thought you weren't a native speaker.

I v much appreciate your saying so - my history with language is complicated given I grew up with Yiddish in the home, German outside of the home and then eventually English so it’s cool to hear

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Here you have an evidence, that's a terrestrial, but I believe that the arboreals have fangs too...

As a newbie in the hobby anyone can make mistakes, but the thing is to learn from other's mistakes, instead of wayting for something bad to happen.

View attachment 393072

I didn't made my homeworks, and almost learned it the hard way.

Thanks for this photo as it shows alot.

Another reason I never use screen tops or mesh vents is that sub-adult and up tarantulas can use their fangs to rip a hole through it to escape. Of course also get their leg/s stuck in a screen top.

 

[Dorifto]

Thanks for this photo as it shows alot.

Another reason I never use screen tops or mesh vents is that sub-adult and up tarantulas can use their fangs to rip a hole through it to escape. Of course also get their leg/s stuck in a screen top.

That was exactly she was doing, she was trying to rip a hole to escape, and got the fang stuck... Another time I found her hanging from one leg, so I put her in her old enclosure and learner about the issue, and made the new enclosures.