FL Man arrested for smuggling roaches

[ZephAmp]

trust me I have lived in South FL ...r anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)

 

[Alejandro45]

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

I beg to differ.
I went to Florida for ten days last spring. I was able to find hundreds of Pycnoscelus surinamensis and about 30 or 40 Periplaneta australasiae, just by digging around in some leaf litter on public property. Somebody could very easily start a colony of either and use them as feeders; P. surinamensis are very bulky and ungodly easy to grow.
(For anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)

your right about Pycnoscelus surinamensis being everywere. But those would make a poor feeder their so small. I do enjoy keeping them and feeding them to the Nephila clavipes in my yard.

in terms of blaberus they are not nearly as common. But if someone was willing to go out of there way to find these roaches by all means try it is fun to go out and look for yourself.

 

[ZephAmp]

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

your right about Pycnoscelus surinamensis being everywere. But those would make a poor feeder their so small. I do enjoy keeping them and feeding them to the Nephila clavipes in my yard.

in terms of blaberus they are not nearly as common. But if someone was willing to go out of there way to find these roaches by all means try it is fun to go out and look for yourself.

This is true.
I didn't read the .pdf you posted, but does it say that cannot bring into the state an animal that is already established? Such as B. discoidalis? I'm sure if if you were allowed to bring in B. discoidalis it would bring an end to the search for a large feeder.

 

[Alejandro45]

No permits are needed for native Florida species (except for species listed as Endangered or Threatened) or naturalized species that are obtained from in-state sources. This includes, but is not restricted to, the following organisms:

Crustacea:
Decapoda: Coenobitidae:
Coenobita clypeata – Caribbean hermit crab

Insecta:
Blattoidea: All native or naturalized Florida species of cockroaches.
Blaberidae:
Blaberus craniifer – death’s head roach
Blaberus discoidalis – discoid roach
Panchlora nivea – green banana or Cuban roach
Blatellidae:
Blatella asahinai – Asian roach

If this would be treated like hot snakes and scorpions with venomous permits we would not have this problem. All it would take is make a permit system that requires one to be of age and require an escape proof room.

Also roaches are beautiful and their excellent teaching tools in the classroom.

 

[Tleilaxu]

If it helps any native FLA peeps I saw some naturalized Blaberus species down in Marathon and Islamorada. I was going to take some home but then decided to release them so others could enjoy them.

 

[ZergFront]

I know I'd love the warm weather in FL or Hawaii but this is just one of the reasons I wouldn't want to live there. Because so many nonnative flora and fauna do settle in nicely or just take-over, they are paranoid about every living thing that comes in.

I'd rather be able to get my bugs no problem. LOL!

 

[Introvertebrate]

................so many nonnative flora and fauna do settle in nicely or just take-over.............

I blame Christopher Columbus. We were pristine before he showed up.

 

[ZergFront]

I blame Christopher Columbus. We were pristine before he showed up.

I know. Curse that Man! Because of him I'm not in the UK sipping tea. *drinks tea*

 

[presurcukr]

Well I'm glad I feed off my roaches and now only have legal feeders!!!

 

[jebbewocky]

I think the guy "deserved" it insofar as he knowingly broke the law.
I'm not claiming I've never done so, having received spiders by USPS I have done so in fact--but if I got caught, I'd deal with it--that is, IMO--we both deserve it, but I didn't get caught.

Plus--I've never committed fraud by falsifying a permit. That's just doing the cop's job for them.

 

[Lucas339]

No permits are needed for native Florida species (except for species listed as Endangered or Threatened) or naturalized species that are obtained from in-state sources. This includes, but is not restricted to, the following organisms:

Crustacea:
Decapoda: Coenobitidae:
Coenobita clypeata – Caribbean hermit crab

Insecta:
Blattoidea: All native or naturalized Florida species of cockroaches.
Blaberidae:
Blaberus craniifer – death’s head roach
Blaberus discoidalis – discoid roach
Panchlora nivea – green banana or Cuban roach
Blatellidae:
Blatella asahinai – Asian roach

If this would be treated like hot snakes and scorpions with venomous permits we would not have this problem. All it would take is make a permit system that requires one to be of age and require an escape proof room.

Also roaches are beautiful and their excellent teaching tools in the classroom.

all of the florida law are at the officers discretion. i have seen many people deal with FWC for animal violations and there is no rhyme or reason to how they hand out citations. for example, i have a good friend who was just fined because according to FWC his monitors cage was 4" too short. this guy has been breeding monitors for years! i would not be surpised in the least if someone got popped for having any of the roaches on the list above even though they bought from inside the state.

 

[Alejandro45]

Lucas339

I agree with you on FWC officers there real "characters" at times Bill stiffler is the one most people watch out for.

But always defend yourself with good paperwork, they have to go buy the book and if your friend has the solid documentation they will have to obide by it.

This remindes me of a time when Mario got fined for haveing a alligator snapper without a dock to get out of the water. everyone knows they never leave the water unless to lay eggs, but the law states all turtles require a dock to remove themself from the water.

what does your friend breed? I have been looking for some cb varanus

 

[Lucas339]

no sure what paperwork he could have provided to get out of the citation. they gave him several warning on not having receipts for his animals.

i don't really speak monitor. he tells me everytime im over there but i always forget. i wish i had to room for one though!!

 

[Nomadinexile]

Unless you live in Florida your tax money is safe... Also, its worth noting the article states he had altered his state issued permits... Pretty much shows he wasnt planning on doing things right just from the start.

Nobody is suggesting he collect feeders from outdoors... The suggestion that he collect then start colonies was made in not so many words, though. There are many species of roaches native to Florida, many of them are also suitible for use as feeders.

Irrelevancy. Go post that in TWH.

That would be corrrect, except for the fact that law enforcement is heavily subsidized by the federal government. Even if this particular branch is not, the subsidization of other branches allows the state to spend their money on this one. On top of that, don't forget the "stimulus". Trust me, plenty of my tax money is spent in florida. All the while, your politicians can't balance their budget! Thanks Florida!

I'm sorry, I thought the guy talking about getting tons of feeders there was.
Regardless, starting a colony is a great idea for the casual hobbyist with a small collection. It does not help someone with a large collection or commercial sales. Not for years, unless your idea of a colony start involves thousands of roaches.

Suitable for feeders does not mean optimal. There are nutrition "labels" for the commonly used species. There are not that I am aware of for some of the species you mention. That also does not include the fact that your starter colony might come with parasites! In this situation, buying a healthy stable colony is the best bet.

As for the irrelvent parts of my posts, I can agree to disagree. But I will say this in closing: As long as children disappear daily, and there are whole large parts of the internet dedicated to their abuse and destruction of their souls, this will remain disgusting to me. And I will continue to be disgusted by my country.

To all of you saying "follow the law", you do realize that our laws are over-reaching and untenable right? You do realize that 99.9% of our population are criminals. EVERYONE in America breaks a law, knowingly or unknowingly, or a fairly regular basis. EVERYONE. It's just a matter of whether you get caught, or if you are rich enough to make it go away. This country is becoming a nanny/police state. As long as everyone acts like all laws should be followed, you are only enabling you or your childrens arrest and jailing by a disgustingly large prison industrial complex. Should someone face gang-rape, beatings and possibly their murder in the WORLDS LARGEST prison system because they could find no reasonable way to get feeders for pets or sale? I don't think so. I hope you come around someday. Peace for All.

 

[What]

Trust me, plenty of my tax money is spent in florida.

No more of your tax money is spent in FL than in any other state, was the idea I had in mind while typing that post.(In fact, feel free to be more upset about money going to AK, HI, NM, ND, KS, VA, MD, DC, CT, and MA who received $12k per capita or more in 2009. Its still irrelevant.)

I'm sorry, I thought the guy talking about getting tons of feeders there was.
Regardless, starting a colony is a great idea for the casual hobbyist with a small collection. It does not help someone with a large collection or commercial sales. Not for years, unless your idea of a colony start involves thousands of roaches.

I started my dubia colony from 20 nymphs, its population was upwards of 200 adults a year later and I was feeding heavily out of it, with some pestiferous species that can be done even faster.
But I agree, it doesnt help a commercial seller or a large collection, but there are legitimate sources of roaches within Florida. It is perfectly possible to legally have roach colonies in FL. He didnt follow the law. That is what happened here.

Suitable for feeders does not mean optimal... That also does not include the fact that your starter colony might come with parasites!

Optimal feeders... lol. Parasites though are a valid concern, personally I have never found a parasitized roach(other than mites), Im sure they exist though...

As long as children disappear daily, and there are whole large parts of the internet dedicated to their abuse and destruction of their souls

What whole large parts of the internet are those? What does that even have to do with a guy modifying paperwork and illegally having roaches? Is there some connection I am missing?

To all of you saying "follow the law", you do realize that our laws are over-reaching and untenable right? ...Should someone face prison because they could find no reasonable way to get feeders for pets or sale? I don't think so. I hope you come around someday.

Everyone realizes that, see the whole "shipping Ts is a felony thing earlier". Seriously...tone it down, for your sake as much as everyone else's. Hopefully the guy just ends up with a fine, isnt he out on bail right now anyway?

 

[zonbonzovi]

"If you would be so kind to PM me the specific locality of where you found several Sp I would greatly appreciate it. It would save me a lot of back and forth driving."

Alejandro, Walmart has everything, esp. out back where incoming shipments are dropped off. I wish I would have taken pictures, but most of the roaches I found were at the back of "big box" & discount stores, 'round midnight. I'm not much into roaches when not feeding them...beetles were my target & there were prob. 4 roaches to every 1 beetle hanging about by the lights. I'm not much for IDing them either, but recognized several different species, esp. in the north end of the state, much more so in rural areas. Live Oak Walmart was crawling with the usual pests, but also with larger species. E. of Jacksonville was another hot spot, mostly where the McMansion sprawl meets green space. Admittedly, I was searching several hours a day, in different locales throughout the state over the course of 2 weeks.

BobGrill, I'm not sure why you feel "insulted". I really don't have a take on the legalities FL F&W or the person who was arrested. My point was: feeders had to come from somewhere initially and I think we simply overlook what is commonly available to us. Rather than risk fines & such, I'm merely saying that you may have an untapped resource at your fingertips that would negate the need for incoming roach shipments.

 

[Scythemantis]

Florida is already hopelessly dominated by aggressive non-native species, there's absolutely NOTHING dubia roaches could possibly do to the ecology. Hell, there's already 60 or 70 types of roach living here and no evidence they've caused any harm.

Even as an environmentalist I have to disagree with the strictness of these laws, it seems like no research goes into them.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Nevermind...

 

[Mat]

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/new.../2011/01/man_accused_of_purchasing_500_1.html

FloriDUH

Weird, wacky, strange news from the Sunshine State


Man accused of purchasing 500 illegal exotic roaches online


By Barbara Hijek January 31, 2011 05:47 AMFlorida is the cockroach capital of the world, so why would we need more?

Apparently there is a need.

The online purchase of 500 illegal exotic roaches, coveted as gourmet reptile food because of their soft shells and high protein content, sent an Orlando man to jail on felony charges, reports the Orlando Sentinel.

Agents with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services said Derek Alan Rader forged a permit to make it appear as though he could legally purchase the creepy crawlers, known as Blaptica dubia, a native of South and Central America.

While the roaches are a tasty and nutritious treat for many reptile pets, state entomologists consider them an invasive insect in Florida.


Entomologists said the state already has the largest number of roach species in the United States, and one-third of them were introduced into the state by humans.

The banned bugs, also called the Guyana Orange Spotted Cockroach, is a species "capable of causing harm to Florida's delicate ecological system," said Greg Hodges, bureau chief of entomology at the state's Division of Plant Industry.

Officials on Wednesday detained Rader on an arrest warrant and booked him into the Orange County Jail.

He is charged with forgery of a public record certificate, fraud and introduction of pests affecting plant life.

He left jail after paying $2,500 bail.

Court records show Rader in October contacted an insect and reptile enthusiast in California by e-mail, requesting 500 of the banned insects.

The person agreed to sell the insects but waited until Rader forwarded a copy of his permit.

Rader sent the seller a receipt for the payment and a copy of his permit, which showed he was allowed to purchase the insects.

The seller tried to confirm the accuracy of the permit with state officials in Florida but sent the insects before getting a response.

The seller mailed the bugs to Rader at a post office box in Orlando.

Investigators said Rader altered his expired permit to show he could buy the banned bugs in Florida.

An online search of insect vendors shows 500 roaches sell for about $100.

It is unclear why Rader purchased the bugs. However, when detectives rummaged through his garbage looking for evidence, they found 1,500 fliers showing he ran a website named FlyCulture.com.

That website is no longer active.

Image: Image: Blaptica dubia / arachnoboards.com

 

[Stylopidae]

I started my dubia colony from 20 nymphs, its population was upwards of 200 adults a year later and I was feeding heavily out of it, with some pestiferous species that can be done even faster.
But I agree, it doesnt help a commercial seller or a large collection, but there are legitimate sources of roaches within Florida. It is perfectly possible to legally have roach colonies in FL. He didnt follow the law. That is what happened here.

Optimal feeders... lol. Parasites though are a valid concern, personally I have never found a parasitized roach(other than mites), Im sure they exist though...

There's also the question of whether roach parasites will live in non-native Theraphosidae...lots of parasites are very host specific, and some aren't specific. In fact, there are parasites in every Tenebrio colony...single celled organisms which live in the reproductive tract. They don't seem to cause a lot of problems.

Although, if parasites are such a big concern after a few dozen generations it kind of makes me wonder how these relatively safe Blaptica/Blaberus/Tenebrio, etc. colonies got started in the first place.

The fears over pesticides and parasites are overblown from what I know of the subject. If you isolate some newly hatched nymphs soon after they're born and before they have a chance to feed on the corpse of an adult it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm living in Georgia at the moment, and on any given summer night I could collect enough smokybrown roaches to start my own feeder colony within a few hours. I usually see about 4/5 a night without going out of my way. If I grabbed every one I saw, I'd have enough to start a colony in like two weeks even if I assume I didn't grab any gravid females.

Florida is already hopelessly dominated by aggressive non-native species, there's absolutely NOTHING dubia roaches could possibly do to the ecology. Hell, there's already 60 or 70 types of roach living here and no evidence they've caused any harm.

Even as an environmentalist I have to disagree with the strictness of these laws, it seems like no research goes into them.

Roaches are generally studied from an urban standpoint, rather than an ecological standpoint. The only roaches in this part of the country that I know of which have an extensive ecological body of work are the Cryptocercus species, and this is only because of their close relation to termites. It's quite possible that competition between species could have an effect on what roaches show up in cities, but I doubt any major work has gone into this.

So, you're technically correct in that there's no evidence exotic roaches have caused any ecological harm...however the reason this is true is because it's not being looked into. There are some exotic species which have been introduced that pest management professionals have to be on the lookout for, although I know nothing about prevalence.