First time owner (A. hentzi) I have a few questions.

Crazyman93

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So don't laugh me out of the forum... but I really dislike/fear most arachnids. (Full details in the intro forum) However, my girlfriend loves them and we live in the southern Colorado desert. For her birthday I WC 2 I believe to be juvenile male A. hentzi. I like Ts though they seem to be the chill stoners of the arachnid family.
Long story short I've found very little clear-cut info on a few subjects.
1. Will they kill each other if housed together for an extended period of time? (currently they are housed together and seem to tolerate one another)
The research I've found is conflicting at best. Some say it'll become a thunder dome before the days out. Others claimed to have housed Ts together for years with no issue. Anyone have personal experience with A. hentzi specifically they want to share? I want them to be happy and healthy little terrors as long as they can be.
2. Because they are WC I felt they'd be most comfortable in their natural environment. I've filled the bottom of their home with dug up coarse sand, added some bark for hides, and a swimming pool (pics to follow). Is there anything I'm missing for them?
3. They are fed WC grasshoppers 1-2x a week is there anything special I need to add to their diet due to their being in captivity?
4. They are both roughly 2.5 inches from thorax to abdomen. I believe them to be male based on their underbellies
 

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viper69

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SEPARATE THEM IMMEDIATELY OR YOU WILL HAVE ONE FAT TARANTULA

THEY ARE NOT COMMUNITY NOR SOCIAL ANIMALS IN THE WILD ACCORDING TO SCIENCE
 

Poonjab

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Me personally, I’d put them back and buy some. As mentioned, they’ll eat each other. Always do research on species before acquiring. Helps work out any kinks from the start.
 

Neonblizzard

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Seperate them immediately, they are not to be kept together no matter what anyone on reddit says - they will kill each other.

Then release them back into the wild where they belong; there is absolutely no need to harvest tarantulas from the wild, you can easily get a captive bred specimen.

Then do some research and build yourself a foundation of knowledge on tarantula care and behaviour first before getting another T.

Then buy yourself a captive bred specimen.

When you get another T don't feed it WC prey items; They can carry pesticides that can hurt your spider
 

Crazyman93

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Seperate them immediately, they are not to be kept together no matter what anyone on reddit says - they will kill each other.

Then release them back into the wild where they belong; there is absolutely no need to harvest tarantulas from the wild, you can easily get a captive bred specimen.

Then do some research and build yourself a foundation of knowledge on tarantula care and behaviour first before getting another T.

Then buy yourself a captive bred specimen.

When you get another T don't feed it WC prey items; They can carry pesticides that can hurt your spider
I find it offensive that you've assumed I use Reddit as a viable source for research. Why do you think I joined this forum instead of reddit? Please refrain from attempting to insult me.
I won't release them into the wild as it's not your choice what I do with my Ts and where I aquire them from. Also, you've no idea about my needs or why a store-bought T isn't viable for me.
I've done the research for the Ts I have. And so far, it seems as if half of what I've read is a "best guess" case. Especially when it comes to subjects like sexing, cohabitation, and age.
For example my Ts have been living together for about 3 days so far and haven't attacked one another. Because the research I did said if they're of similar size, well fed, and have their own hides they will cohabit relatively problem free. The first day was iffy and I watched them for several hours to ensure they didn't kill each other. They've been fed together, hang out around one another, and haven't shown aggression toward one another.
Finally, I feel like a WC T will be fine with WC prey as that's what they eat naturally and have probably grown accustomed to the pesticides used here.
I appreciate all you've written, and I will take your words into consideration. However, I would suggest getting off your high horse when attempting to give advice to people, as it makes your message convoluted. If you're done judging me, and have some useful info pertaining to my questions I eagerly await your response.
 

mack1855

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Well....you certainly have everything under control then.No need to ask advise or questions.
You are certainly in control.Probably don’t even need to join any T forums.Your doing everything YOU believe is correct husbandry.
 

viper69

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why a store-bought T isn't viable for me.
Why isn't that viable, I haven't heard someone say this (short of Ts aren't offered)

Especially when it comes to subjects like sexing, cohabitation, and age
Sexing- is not guess work when done properly by people with experience, especially using a molt. Why you think it's guess work is beyond me. If you are looking at responses here in AB for this, your mileage will vary on the person's experience, AND the poster. Some posters put up the stupidest USELESS out of focus images, and expect people to know what sex it is.

Cohabitation- also is not guesswork. I trust science on this, not people babbling on a forum.I find it fascinating how so many people take pets, Ts snakes etc, and want to put them together with others. Or put species form different continents together...Not saying you, but these people are either ignorant, or stupid.
The one variable these people, yourself included it seems, neglect to consider is that captivity can induce abnormal behavior- that's a fact. The other fact people fail to consider is that science has not reported a species of T that lives communally in the wild.

Age- any person with a modicum of experience knows one cannot guess the age of a T by looking at it. It's not possible, so the only guess work involved is done by those who are ignorant on this topic.

Glad you don't rely on reddit!

I wouldn't be offended by it though because tons of people come here from reddit and Stupidbook thinking they picked up good reliable info. Most people that think keeping Ts together come from those 2 sites.

Like @mack1855 wrote above, and I agree, why did you post at all?
 
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Neonblizzard

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I find it offensive that you've assumed I use Reddit as a viable source for research. Why do you think I joined this forum instead of reddit? Please refrain from attempting to insult me.
I won't release them into the wild as it's not your choice what I do with my Ts and where I aquire them from. Also, you've no idea about my needs or why a store-bought T isn't viable for me.
I've done the research for the Ts I have. And so far, it seems as if half of what I've read is a "best guess" case. Especially when it comes to subjects like sexing, cohabitation, and age.
For example my Ts have been living together for about 3 days so far and haven't attacked one another. Because the research I did said if they're of similar size, well fed, and have their own hides they will cohabit relatively problem free. The first day was iffy and I watched them for several hours to ensure they didn't kill each other. They've been fed together, hang out around one another, and haven't shown aggression toward one another.
Finally, I feel like a WC T will be fine with WC prey as that's what they eat naturally and have probably grown accustomed to the pesticides used here.
I appreciate all you've written, and I will take your words into consideration. However, I would suggest getting off your high horse when attempting to give advice to people, as it makes your message convoluted. If you're done judging me, and have some useful info pertaining to my questions I eagerly await your response.
Lmao ok good luck, you've clearly got this one boxed off.
 
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Crazyman93

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Well....you certainly have everything under control then.No need to ask advise or questions.
You are certainly in control.Probably don’t even need to join any T forums.Your doing everything YOU believe is correct husbandry.
Why isn't that viable, I haven't heard someone say this (short of Ts aren't offered)



Sexing- is not guess work when done properly by people with experience, especially using a molt. Why you think it's guess work is beyond me. If you are looking at responses here in AB for this, your mileage will vary on the person's experience, AND the poster. Some posters put up the stupidest USELESS out of focus images, and expect people to know what sex it is.

Cohabitation- also is not guesswork. I trust science on this, not people babbling on a forum.

Age- any person with a modicum of experience knows one cannot guess the age of a T by looking at it. It's not possible, so the only guess work involved is done by those who are ignorant on this topic.

Glad you don't rely on reddit!

I wouldn't be offended by it though because tons of people come here from reddit and Stupidbook thinking they picked up good reliable info. Most people that think keeping Ts together come from those 2 sites.

Like @mack1855 wrote above, and I agree, why did you post at all?
Buying a T isn't a viable option for me as I am dirt poor and don't have extra money to spend on buying something I can catch. So unless someone wants to ship me free Ts it's not going to happen.
Sexing information I've found from AB and other sources have outright said it's guesswork without a molt and a trained eye. After digging through AB I've found a pdf that I've been using. It does seem to eliminate my previous notions about sexing.

My views on cohabitation come from AB, science, and what I can see with my own eyes. I know most Ts can't cohabit as they'll eat one another. But I also know some can, this is why I'm asking about cohabitation with my Ts specifically not Ts as a whole.

It's not offensive to assume someone I know next to nothing about is an idiot? I guess we get offended by different actions.

I posted here hoping to find reliable information about my Ts and a community that could help me grow and learn on this new journey I've started. Instead, I get a bunch of people focused on the fact they're wild Ts and they're cohabiting. No one has commented on the T behavior in the video I uploaded as to point out any aggressive signs between them. Or given advice on their enclosure conditions.
 

PHIazkals

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Buying a T isn't a viable option for me as I am dirt poor and don't have extra money to spend on buying something I can catch. So unless someone wants to ship me free Ts it's not going to happen.
Sexing information I've found from AB and other sources have outright said it's guesswork without a molt and a trained eye. After digging through AB I've found a pdf that I've been using. It does seem to eliminate my previous notions about sexing.

My views on cohabitation come from AB, science, and what I can see with my own eyes. I know most Ts can't cohabit as they'll eat one another. But I also know some can, this is why I'm asking about cohabitation with my Ts specifically not Ts as a whole.

It's not offensive to assume someone I know next to nothing about is an idiot? I guess we get offended by different actions.

I posted here hoping to find reliable information about my Ts and a community that could help me grow and learn on this new journey I've started. Instead, I get a bunch of people focused on the fact they're wild Ts and they're cohabiting. No one has commented on the T behavior in the video I uploaded as to point out any aggressive signs between them. Or given advice on their enclosure conditions.
I may not be the most experienced keeper but I know just enough to tell you that we've kept Aphonopelma for decades and we've come to the conclusion it's best to keep them separate. They won't tolerate any intruders like most Ts. While yes, some can be kept together but only 1 species comes to mind has ever found any long term "success" (Even then there were some blunders). The fact no one tries nowadays with this very popular genus is telling.

In terms of wild caught, you're hurting a local population of a species almost anyone can get captive bred, even in Europe we have captive bred slings of this species. If you're dirt poor, just wait until you have enough money to spend, no need to get spiders from the wild. If you can't cough up 100-180+ usd for an adult just buy a few slings, they'll cost a lot less, they don't need an expensive enclosure (No tarantula does anyway), you get to raise them to adulthood and you'll have them longer.
 
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Crazyman93

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I may not be the most experienced keeper but I know just enough to tell you that we've kept Aphonopelma for decades and we've come to the conclusion it's best to keep them separate. They won't tolerate any intruders like most Ts. While yes, some can be kept together but only 1 species comes to mind has ever found any long term "success" (Even then there were some blunders). The fact no one tries nowadays with this very popular genus is telling.

In terms of wild caught, you're hurting a local population of a species almost anyone can get captive bred, even in Europe we have captive bred slings of this species. If you're dirt poor, just wait until you have enough money to spend, no need to get spiders from the wild. If you can't cough up 100-180+ usd for an adult just buy a few slings, they'll cost a lot less, they don't need an expensive enclosure (No tarantula does anyway), you get to raise them to adulthood and you'll have them longer.
Thank you for your advice, which species was it? Did it fall into the Aphonopelma genus?

Why does it seem like everyone is against WC Ts even of very common varieties? I would think the breeder who also WC Ts and then breeds and sells them would have a more damaging effect on the population than I with two very commonly found Ts
 

viper69

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without a molt and a trained eye.
This is exactly what I said earlier, we are in agreement. Again there is only guesswork done by those that don't have experience.
But I also know some can
You do? What species do you know that can be kept communally without any loss of specimens through their natural life cycle. If you say M. balfouri, you are wrong. There is data which shows they will eat each other. Far too many people confuse "tolerate each other" with "communal". It's a big difference. Most people think they have a communal setup, they don't, they threw specimens together that tolerate each other..UNTIL they don't.

Again, not a single species of T has been described in the scientific literature as being communal.

It's not offensive to assume someone I know next to nothing about is an idiot?
You lost me.

my Ts and a community that could help me grow and learn on this new journey I've started
Smart idea

they're wild Ts and they're cohabiting. No one has commented on the T behavior in the video I uploaded as to point out any aggressive signs between them
I watched your video. There was nothing to comment about except that you have them in the same space. Do you really think a few seconds of video is enough time to judge behavior????

Why does it seem like everyone is against WC Ts even of very common varieties?
Keeping WC animals falls into a few categories of people. Would you want to be stolen from your home and thrown into a glass box for life? I think a lot of people who take WC animals without releasing them should have the same done to them.

1.Those absolutely against it. Some against human animals keeping other animals

2. Those that believe introducing WC genes is necessary for a healthy captive population- this is a fact. However, MOST people say this, when really they don't give a damn at all. They say this to avoid confrontation and being told they are wrong.

3. Those that believe you should buy CB instead of WC because taking from the wild population hurts that species ability to exist on the planet- in most cases of all types of animals this is true. Perhaps roaches and ants this isn't true.

Plus, while you may say "hey I only took two", well I have news for you, you aren't the only one stealing from nature.

I was at a herp show, and about 3 dealers had well over 50 Apho's PER table that were all adult sized. They didn't sit on these for years upon years and all sell at the time. They were in fact wild caught. This type of damn stupid behavior was going to cause the extinction of the B. hamori because man raped nature and took whatever he wanted to, just as always. This is why this species is on CITES, not because it couldn't survive on its own, but because it wouldn't survive with all the damn primates taking them!!


So you have to ask yourself, are you a principled person, where "taking 1 or taking 1,000" is wrong period or NOT. Do you think you are the only one picking off a few here and there- you are NOT. Everyone lives a certain life to suit their own beliefs.


Sex ID: Id like to think you have learned that sexing Ts is not done dorsally by now. Hence your question your video w/your question is useless.

For example my Ts have been living together for about 3 days so far and haven't attacked one another
This doesn't indicate anything at all to support your notion. 3 days is nothing.
 
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AphonopelmaTX

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Why does it seem like everyone is against WC Ts even of very common varieties? I would think the breeder who also WC Ts and then breeds and sells them would have a more damaging effect on the population than I with two very commonly found Ts
You are right. Those who harvest tarantulas by the thousands for resale in the pet trade have a better chance at hurting wild populations than an individual who collects a few for themselves. The damage not only comes from collecting the adults, which take years to get to the adult stage, but it also takes out the hundred of thousands of babies that would be born in captivity if gravid females are a part of that harvest.

As far as the video uploaded is concerned, the two tarantulas are intentionally choosing opposite sides of the container to get away from each other. They would be better off being housed separately. If for any other reason, it would make them more comfortable. If they are both males, housing doesn't need to be expensive at all. Just a couple of cheap shoe box sized plastic containers with a few holes in the lid and bit of soil will do just fine.

If they are actually eating wild collected grasshoppers, then there should be no reason to change it.
All in all, based on the video the only thing that needs changing is separating them and that doesn't need to be expensive at all.
 

viper69

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but it also takes out the hundred of thousands of babies that would be born in captivity if gravid females are a part of that harvest.
True, and of course the hundreds of thousands that will never be born which are necessary to keep the species alive in the wild.
 

Rigor Mortis

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I continue to be confused by people who come on here asking for advice and then get defensive when we give them the advice they asked for.

Have fun with your eventual one spider, dude.
 

MrDeranged

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Welcome to the site. :)

So don't laugh me out of the forum... but I really dislike/fear most arachnids. (Full details in the intro forum) However, my girlfriend loves them and we live in the southern Colorado desert. For her birthday I WC 2 I believe to be juvenile male A. hentzi. I like Ts though they seem to be the chill stoners of the arachnid family.
Long story short I've found very little clear-cut info on a few subjects.
1. Will they kill each other if housed together for an extended period of time? (currently they are housed together and seem to tolerate one another)
The research I've found is conflicting at best. Some say it'll become a thunder dome before the days out. Others claimed to have housed Ts together for years with no issue. Anyone have personal experience with A. hentzi specifically they want to share? I want them to be happy and healthy little terrors as long as they can be.
2. Because they are WC I felt they'd be most comfortable in their natural environment. I've filled the bottom of their home with dug up coarse sand, added some bark for hides, and a swimming pool (pics to follow). Is there anything I'm missing for them?
3. They are fed WC grasshoppers 1-2x a week is there anything special I need to add to their diet due to their being in captivity?
4. They are both roughly 2.5 inches from thorax to abdomen. I believe them to be male based on their underbellies
  1. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps a better question to ask, is "Is the chance that one might kill/eat the other a chance that you want/are willing to take?"

  2. You've provided spaces where they can potentially feel secure and a water source. Those are the basic needs of any tarantula (a food source is also a given need.) Without seeing a more complete pic of the enclosure, we also can't tell you things such as if there is enough substrate or if there are other possible hazards (aside from the elephant in the room which is the other tarantula in the same enclosure, definitely a hazard). Natural environment is tricky. As soon as you transfer that environment to an enclosed space, it's not really natural anymore. Any other organisms that may have been part of the "natural environment" that you created may quickly spiral out of control in an enclosed space (e.g. mites, fungus, mold, contaminants in the soil, etc.) Is the chance that something in the natural environment that you created might harm your tarantula a chance that you want/are willing to take?

  3. There is nothing special that needs to be added to the diet. Do you have a plan for times that you might be unable to capture a food source for the tarantulas? Is the chance that feeding a potentially contaminated food source that might harm your tarantula a chance that you want/are willing to take?

  4. Size is not a reliable method of sexing. Ventral sexing is more hit or miss without the exact knowledge of the species you are looking at and what you are looking for. The most reliable method of sexing is usually the presence of easily visible spermathecae in a molt and even that can sometimes be problematic based upon the knowledge of the viewer.
Buying a T isn't a viable option for me as I am dirt poor and don't have extra money to spend on buying something I can catch. So unless someone wants to ship me free Ts it's not going to happen.
I can't afford a dog, but I don't go out and take a stray off the streets because I want one. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should. That is of course up to you.

My views on cohabitation come from AB, science, and what I can see with my own eyes. I know most Ts can't cohabit as they'll eat one another. But I also know some can, this is why I'm asking about cohabitation with my Ts specifically not Ts as a whole.
Lets say I put a rat in a python cage. If the python doesn't eat the rat within a week, are they cohabitating successfully? What about a month or a year? Successful cohabitation is based upon whatever arbitrary criteria that person uses. "Only 2 out of 10 tarantulas got eaten, I'll call it a success" :(

I posted here hoping to find reliable information about my Ts and a community that could help me grow and learn on this new journey I've started. Instead, I get a bunch of people focused on the fact they're wild Ts and they're cohabiting. No one has commented on the T behavior in the video I uploaded as to point out any aggressive signs between them. Or given advice on their enclosure conditions.
Like any community, you'll find good information and questionable information here. Overall, I'd say we have a higher ratio of good information. With the number of years we've been around, the number of keepers, and the number of years that many of us have been keeping T's, I'd say that collectively, AB has 100's if not 1000's of years of collective experience. We're definitely here to help, but we're definitely biased on the side of the tarantula and not necessarily what the keeper wants. When something is seen that goes against that collective experience, we're known to speak out about it. ;)

As for your video, the only thing I was able to get from it was two tarantulas sharing the same enclosure that are, at the moment, staying as far away from each other as possible in a limited space. As far as aggressive behavior, you probably wont be there to see it, or if you do, at that point, it will probably be too late for one or both of them. (e.g. the rat and python example above)

Why does it seem like everyone is against WC Ts even of very common varieties? I would think the breeder who also WC Ts and then breeds and sells them would have a more damaging effect on the population than I with two very commonly found Ts
Because the wild capturing of "common" varieties of tarantulas eventually leads to them no longer being common (B. hamorii, G. rosea, etc.)

Hope that helped answer some of your questions. :D

MrD
 

Crazyman93

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I feel like those who seek reliable info on social platforms are idiots as there are so many better resources to be used. To clarify my comment @viper69
@AphonopelmaTX The video is of the first few moments of them in the same container. They eat next to each other, chill on the same side of the container, they've started web building, and were touching each other earlier today. Pics will be posted.

I plan on splitting them up as recommended. They've started to build webs is my removal of one going to negatively impact their behavior? Or is their web building a sign that they're comfortable with one another? If that is the case I think it's likely I've IMG_20210926_140213198.jpg IMG_20210926_140258802.jpg misgendered one when I looked at it closer last night.
I understand the risks involved in WC prey and a natural environment. I think it's relatively small considering they're WC anyways. The moral implications I also understand and am fine with judge me as you will on that.

@MrDeranged I have 3 dogs one came from a dumpster, and another I stole from an abusive owner. Soo yeah I'd totally grab a stray dog or 6 lol.
 

viper69

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They've started to build webs is my removal of one going to negatively impact their behavior?
No - they are solitary animals in the wild.

If male once they mature they will begin to walk all over- this is ALL males behavior when looking for females. Let them ago at that point where you found them, or provide their genes to a CB female’s owner.

Not doing either means you wasted their lives given they are WC.
 
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Hakuna

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Only a matter of time before one eats the other. Too bad. Smh
 
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