Family with Venom Allergies

ZooRex

Arachnobaron
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My Dad who is the main provider for my family, is highly allergic to wasp venom and has to carry an epi pen in the summer. Now that I've joined this forum I've begun thinking about keeping scorpions, a pet I never thought I'd own. The species I'm considering are: Hardrurus arizonensis, Heterometrus spinifer, Lychas mucronatus, Pandinus cavimanus, and Scorpio maurus. All would be kept in secure enclosures in there own out-of-the-way room. There would be really no reason for my dad to have to come in contact with the scorps, but stranger things have happened. With this all said, what are your opinions? Thanks ~ Rex
 

H. cyaneus

Arachnobaron
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Hello,

Sometimes you can be allergic to wasp or bee venom, and not be allergic to scorpion venom. My advice is don't screw up.

Mike
 

tabor

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Hey KingRex -

I would go for the H. Spinifer if this is your first scorpion, very hearty, fun to keep and good entertainment. Just keep them for 2 months or so and see how things go, then if they are healthy and doing good, you might consider a more advanced species to raise and bond with =)


I have 4 spins in one cage with plenty of hiding and they never fight amongst each other... and you dont have to worry about them escaping, from what I have observed unless you have wires leading into the cage i.e. fogger or heat rock.


Hope this helps, I can post pictures of my setup if you want.. I also have a nice setup for my Jacksoni if you want to see that too to get some ideas ! :)



-tabor
 

JungleGuts

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with the situation with your dad, if you can be positive how he would react to a scorpion, i wouldnt take the chance.
 

tabor

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I wouldnt go so far as to say that jungleguts.

Rex- just don't be careless, know your pet - know what he/she is capable of, observe it carefully the first few days , you say it has its own room- good ! stuff a towel under the door at night for a week or so just incase something does happen its somewhat contained.
 

JungleGuts

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I wouldnt go so far as to say that jungleguts.

Rex- just don't be careless, know your pet - know what he/she is capable of, observe it carefully the first few days , you say it has its own room- good ! stuff a towel under the door at night for a week or so just incase something does happen its somewhat contained.
If someone in my house could potentially have a deadly elegric reacting from a pet that i was keeping then i wouldnt think of owning one, so yes i will go as far to say that.
 

Brian S

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Scorpion venom is all together a different thing from wasp venom.
 

Crotalus

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Severe allergic reactions to scorpion venom is for all I know very uncommon.
 

cacoseraph

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there are plenty of people with the megagnarly scorps with kids and pets and what not. and there it is not a q of allergy... those scorps are just plain toxic.

seems like similar situation to me


also, i'm with crotalus... can't recall reading about any allergic reactions to scorp venom.
 

H. cyaneus

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Only "severe" allergic reaction I remember reading is when a guy got stung by a P. imperator, had a fever for a week.

Mike
 

compnerd7

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Like stated before, just be very carefull... I read in a little older post of someone who has some of there scorps at work, and he keeps then in a 'dobble cage' where he has all his scorps in a cage within a cage so that if they get out, they just fall into another cage... this might be a good idea for you just to be on the safe side, that way is really minimizes the chances of your father getting hurt.

And if u get some scorps and find that u are really uncomfortable in keeping them, then I would be happy to take them from you ;)
 

Elytra and Antenna

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Deaths associated with scorpion stings with low LD50 values are the result of anaphylactic shock.
 

tabor

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Deaths associated with scorpion stings with low LD50 values are the result of anaphylactic shock.
The epipen should be just as effective preventing anaphylactic shock resulting from a scorpion sting as it would be against a wasp sting. So in order for your scorpion to pose a significant risk to your father:

1) your dad would have to come into direct contact with one. (very unlikely)

then

2) your dad would have to get stung by it

then

3) your dad would have to be as allergic to scorp venom as he is to a wasp's

then

4) the epipen would have to totally fail at preventing him from entering anaphalactic shock

All of those events are individually unlikely, but INSANELY unlikely to all happen together like that.
 

skinheaddave

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I remember reading a paper a long time ago that gave me the impression that there was little instance of x-reactivity between hymenoptera and arachnid venoms. That being said, this was many years ago and I can't recall the paper.

To me, the situation seems pretty clear cut. Due to the possibility that your father is more succeptable to complications in an instance of evenomation, you need to consider anything that can inject that venom as potentially deadly. So your housing and practices have to be up to the standards used with "hot" scorpions -- at least in terms of preventing escapes, though not necessarily with respect to handling etc.

At that point, you have to make the decision to keep them or not to keep them as a family.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Drachenjager

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If someone in my house could potentially have a deadly elegric reacting from a pet that i was keeping then i wouldnt think of owning one, so yes i will go as far to say that.
hmmm i dont think that would be that big a deal we have scorpions wild running all around here, so the chance of coming in contact wiht one in the wild is much greater than coming in contact with one that is properly housed and taken care of; at least in my location.
But being allergic to one venom does not mean you are allergic to another. The allergy to bee venom is just that . an allergy to bee venom. I dont know all the chemical compositions of these but i believe that bee venom and scorp venom are like comparing chevys and horses.
 

skinheaddave

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I dont know all the chemical compositions of these but i believe that bee venom and scorp venom are like comparing chevys and horses.
The truth of it is that allergic reactions, especialy anaphylaxis, are poorely understood as a whole.

With regards to venom composition, you are likely right in that none of the complex polypeptides in either venom are similar enough to trigger an IgE mediated reaction based on a previously developed sensitivity to the other sort of venom. Truly, though, we don't know. There are also several compounds -- seratonin, for example -- that are common between the two venoms.

One must also wonder if there are differences in the immune systems of different people that play a role here. Is someone who has developed an intense sensitivity to one venom more likely to develop a sensitivity to another venom? Perhaps it is like comparing chevys and horses -- but I'm thinking that someone's visual acuity is a factor which might affect their ability to drive/ride either.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Drachenjager

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The truth of it is that allergic reactions, especialy anaphylaxis, are poorely understood as a whole.

With regards to venom composition, you are likely right in that none of the complex polypeptides in either venom are similar enough to trigger an IgE mediated reaction based on a previously developed sensitivity to the other sort of venom. Truly, though, we don't know. There are also several compounds -- seratonin, for example -- that are common between the two venoms.

One must also wonder if there are differences in the immune systems of different people that play a role here. Is someone who has developed an intense sensitivity to one venom more likely to develop a sensitivity to another venom? Perhaps it is like comparing chevys and horses -- but I'm thinking that someone's visual acuity is a factor which might affect their ability to drive/ride either.

Cheers,
Dave
yeah and vice versa too . I am apparantly immune to teh stings of wasps and bees after being stung severly as a kid by yellow jackets. Now wasps and bees and scorps(c. vitattus) only itch a tiny bit when i am stung. I dont know about Tarantula or centipede venom...yet.
 

Crotalus

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Its rather the venom composition that determines if one type is more prone to cause such reactions as anaphylaxis then other venoms. Some doesnt cause them at all, some very rarely and some more often.
Tarantula venom is in the first category, scorpions in the second and bee, ant and snake venom in the third.
 

ZooRex

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Thanks to everyone for replying so quickly. I was and still am pretty sure I'll own a scorp in the near future, I just wanted some out side opinions. Just to clarify, I've heard people describe scorp, and more specifically emp stings as similar to that of a wasp, this is what got me thinking. Also, both of my parents love animals and really love that all of mine are in their own room, where they don't have to worry about them. If I happened to bring a scorp home today, my mom would probably say "It better not get out!" followed shortly by "well it is kinda cool." And my dad would say "let me know when you feed it." I'm the one second guessing myself, not anybody else. Because I take full responsibility for my animals, and would hate for anybody to be hurt because of them. ~ Rex
 
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