Experienced Keeper - What Does That Mean?

[Craig73]

I‘ve seen a number of references to “experienced” keepers when it comes to providing guidance to questions; much of which I agree with.

PREFACE:
The following question is serious and not intended to bait or discuss why certain genius should or should not be kept by individuals. PLEASE READ THIS TWICE.

QUESTION:
What do you consider to be an “experienced” keeper? Does it consist some or all of the criteria I’ve listed below, or are there addition factors?

Amount of time someone has raised T’s (if so what do you consider this to be?)

Number of T’s (if so is there an ideal number?)

Amount of research done

Having kept NW, OW, and/or True spiders

Etc...

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Experience is mostly subjective but in my opinion it's a keeper who has raised several different species of varying husbandry difficulty. Numbers need not apply imo, it's more of a quality over quantity thing to me. Someone who has successfully raised several different OW and NW species from slings, I'll tip my glass to that person. Of course this takes time since slings don't mature overnight so they'll likely have time on their side, so I'd also consider how long this person has been in the hobby. Does this mean someone with 20+ different species who has been in the hobby since 2007 is an experienced keeper? Maybe, maybe not. It's a pretty grey term that we like to toss around here mostly to refer to the folks who provide the most solid responses to husbandry/quality of life questions.

 

[DomGom TheFather]

I like to think that it means they have done it enough to have solid advice to give based on their own experience.
Time spent on a little bit of everything might not best time spent on the thing you are asking about.

Here's hoping.

 

[Craig73]

I found the term in general to be in the gray area, which is partly why I wanted to pose the question as a newly reintroduced keeper from a short stint a few years back. Hopefully a beneficial topic for those that maybe looking for validation on where they may fit in terms of novice, intermediate, or experienced.

I’d like to consider myself a life long learner in some aspect, so I find myself moving along the spectrum with quite a bit of fluidity.

 

[DaveM]

It can be difficult to judge a person's experience just by looking at his/her stats on Arachnoboards. Some of us have been keeping spiders a very long time before we were members here, and before this site even existed.
Experience is also not monolithic, but multifaceted to the extreme.

The problems I see are 1) when true noobs don't take the advice of the truly more experienced, 2) when people jockey/compete with others to establish themselves as more experienced/knowledgable because they are insecure and struggling with self-worth issues, and 3) when the experienced are harsh/rude/insulting to newcomers as though knowledge and experience with spiders were the only kinds of knowledge and experience worth having (again, a problem of insecurity and fragile self-worth).

Many people here are geniuses with arachnid husbandry, and much less than geniuses in other worthy endeavors of mathematics, sciences, and the liberal arts.
We were all inexperienced when we started out. Share, be kind to others, and enjoy!

 

[cold blood]

Amount of time someone has raised T’s (if so what do you consider this to be?)

Number of T’s (if so is there an ideal number?)

its a bit of both of these two. Time is important, and the more experience you have with more species, the better and more your experiences will be, and the better recognition of the t keeping subtlties you will have.

One could argue that research is one....but as i always say, if i was looking for someone to watch my ts, i would take the person with a year experience over the person who's done years of research every time....research can only take you so far, as is frequently illustrated by the 100s of threads started by new keepers who have done tons of research, but still end up having difficulties with the most basic things.

Lots of reasearch, without real world experience, most often just leads to an over confident newbie.

Research is good, and necessary, but theres little doubt that actual experience is king in this (and really most) hobby.

It often takes a year or two just to get used to not being jumpy around fast movements., and thats most often our first hurdle to becoming experienced.

 

[moricollins]

There's no way answer for what makes someone experienced.

It's a combination of things including length of experience, quantity of experience i.e. number of Tarantulas and number of species (someone who's raised 20 T. Albos has (in my opinion) less experience overall than someone who's raised 20 tarantulas of different species)

 

[DomGom TheFather]

There's no way answer for what makes someone experienced.

It's a combination of things including length of experience, quantity of experience i.e. number of Tarantulas and number of species (someone who's raised 20 T. Albos has (in my opinion) less experience overall than someone who's raised 20 tarantulas of different species)

Unless you want advice on t. Albos.

 

[RezonantVoid]

IMO, experience is not a mere title gained from regularly keeping a species or collection for many years or other set period of time. It's a quality earned by those who have put effort into however long their time as a keeper has been.

To elaborate, ive been keeping various invertebrates for about 10 years now, starting with a handful of scorpions and in recent years branching out into keeping a large collection, breeding various species and raising hundreds of slings. But in the last 3 years of proper dedication, I've learnt more than the previous 7 combined, and would only call myself sufficiently knowledgeable despite a decent amount of time.

Experience is gained by applying effort to many aspects of a hobby. Someone experienced doesnt generalize their husbandry, they thoroughly research care on an individual species level. Does this species require higher sediment content in its substrate? Would peat and sand be a viable mix for this species? How does this specimen behave compared to general assumptions and personal experiences? What can i do to this setup to make sure any breeding with this species goes smoothly? When you go in depth into researching with a determination for providing the best possible care for your inverts in all stages of their life, and do so successfully, you've gained some experience. Maybe not much, maybe alot. But you've been rewarded for you effort with experience.

This is at least my point of view

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

its a bit of both of these two. Time is important, and the more experience you have with more species, the better you will be, and the better recognition of the t keeping subtlties you will have.

One could argue that research is one....but as i always say, if i was looking for someone to watch my ts, i would take the person with a year experience over the person who's done years of research every time....research can only take you so far, as is frequently illustrated by the 100s of threads started by new keepers who have done tons of research, but still end up having difficulties with the most basic things.

Lots of reasearch, without real world experience, most often just leads to an over confident newbie.

Research is good, and necessary, but theres little doubt that actual experience is king in this (and really most) hobby.

It often takes a year or two just to get used to not being jumpy around fast movements., and thats most often our first hurdle to becoming experienced.

Well put. I share the same point of view when it comes to what defines experience. One can do all of the reading and/ or YouTube watching possible, but if someone can't handle a tarantula that is prone to run up and out of its container then they need to stay away from my collection. Thinking they can because they watch someone on YouTube do it, or read about it on Arachnoboards doesn't count.

Experience in any subject matter is mostly gained through taking the initiative of having hands on learning and putting themselves in as many different situations as possible. One could keep the same tarantulas in the same housing and have the same 'hands off' routine for years and still never reach the experience level of someone who has been keeping tarantulas for 1 year but actually interacts with their tarantulas every once in a while.

 

[Craig73]

Lots of good perspectives here that are helpful and food for thought on how one can apply their existing knowledge and learn from others to continue to build their toolkits to have a successful and rewarding experience. Truly appreciate the dialogue. This just shows how enriching this forum is.

 

[Vanessa]

Experienced means someone who uses sound judgement when dealing with these animals. They don't take chances, they are deliberate in their interactions, they are not taken off guard easily, they don't question the importance of being prepared.
Someone who can identify basic tarantula behaviour. If you can't recognize pre-moult, if you can't recognize that the reason that your spider isn't eating is because they are huge and don't want food, if you can't understand that burrowing means the number of different things it means, if you have to ask what the outcome of doing something like handling and tong feeding can be, if you have to question the importance of basic necessities, then you just aren't experienced.
When you have done a number of different speed/size/temperament rehouses and they have gone without incident. A couple is just plain luck.
When you understand it is about the animal's welfare, and not what you think is aesthetically pleasing when it's at their expense.
When you understand the consequences of poor judgement, and reckless behaviour, on the entire community, then you have collected some experience.

 

[Venom1080]

If youve raised a variety of different species to maturity, youre experienced.

If theres anything you cant raise in confidence, youre not experienced.

PS if you take that as a challenge to go and buy something youre uncomfortable with, youre not only inexperienced, youre a twit. patience is a fine trait.

 

[Craig73]

Great stuff Vanessa. It’s nice to have some context behind how many more seasoned keepers than I see it. I’ve seen somewhere in here, may be multiple posters, that just because you can keep it alive doesn’t necessarily make someone a more qualified or “experienced” keeper. I love the perspectives provided, it always helps me think about my stance, learn and grow as a person.

If youve raised a variety of different species to maturity, youre experienced.

If theres anything you cant raise in confidence, youre not experienced.

PS if you take that as a challenge to go and buy something youre uncomfortable with, youre not only inexperienced, youre a twit. patience is a fine trait.

I’ll be honest, I have 5% twit in me...but may depend on who you ask. I just go for the best looking percentage.

 

[Royalty]

I think there is a difference between "Experienced" and a "good" keeper tho. Someone can have a lot of experience in time and number/variety of t's but still practice bad habits.

I think it is important to always research. Methods of keeping evolve over time so it is important to keep up to date with things. I sometimes ask questions that I already have researched on here just to get the most up to date opinions

patience is a fine trait.

I think I have quite a bit of patience. As someone that doesn't tong feed I sometimes stand and watch for a while for the T to hunt the prey. Sometimes my pokie will snatch it mid-air, sometimes they will creep up on it after it has fallen.

 

[viper69]

Criteria subjective

What’s experience to one is NOT experience to others.

We’ve had people who have 20 slings for less than a year consider themselves experienced.

We’ve had people with well over many decades of experience with dozens upon dozens of species including breeding say “I’m still learning”

 

[moricollins]

Unless you want advice on t. Albos.

Right!

A comparison I've used in the past is: for WINTER driving in Canada I would take someone with a year or two driving experience of all season Canadian driving versus someone with decades of driving experience in Southern California because the road conditions that they have experienced are not the same. (Assuming the Southern California driver hasn't driven on a blizzard and freezing rain and icy patches).

 

[Vanessa]

I think there is a difference between "Experienced" and a "good" keeper tho. Someone can have a lot of experience in time and number/variety of t's but still practice bad habits.

I find that people who practice bad habits haven't experienced the consequences of their actions and as a result I would not consider them 'experienced'. Most have gotten away with doing what they do through luck and not because they have control over the situation. Someone who has enough experience to have suffered the consequences of making poor judgments often enough, or the foresight to know what might happen in a worse case scenario and knows how to avoid it, usually don't engage in too many bad habits.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Great topic and a great thread!
Obviously this is all very subjective. There is no magic formula that states species x time = experience and your badge arrives in the mail in 4 to 6 weeks.
You have to use common sense and your best judgement. You may have a keeper who, due to time or space restrictions may only have 10 species but they've had their collection for 20 yrs, or the keeper that has worked with 30+ species, but for only 5 yrs.
Who is experienced? They both are but in different ways.
The cool thing to me is that there are many who posted on this thread I would consider experienced, I bet none of them would consider themselves experts and they would all say they are still learning. As all of us are, that's why we are on Arachnoboards in the first place.

 

[mack1855]

Expanding @cold blood ,s post.while not T relevant its a experience example:
A truckdriver came to wotk at the last trucking co.i worked for before retirement,He had 6 years semi driving,and at least 700,000 miles of safe driving.From L.A,Calif to Tuscon and Dallas/Ft Worth.
His first loaded tanker from Denver to Vail Colorado,over Loveland Pass at 12000 ft above sea level,and he froze at the foot of the pass.Scared to death.We had to send a driver to take over for him,and get
the load delivered.
Now,think rehouse the A chalcodes vs rehouse the OBT.