Euathlus color options

Ratmosphere

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I am going to get Euathlus sp. red adults soon but am kind of confused. Some of the ones labeled as this species are truly red in appearance. Others I see labeled as this species are kind of an orange color. Are the orange ones technically Euathlus sp. yellow? Or do they pass as Euathlus sp. red?
 

EulersK

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I don't have an answer for you, but do note that Euathlus as a whole is kind of a mess. What we call Euathlus truculentus is likely E. pulcherrimaklaasi in the wild, and what we call E. pulcherrimaklaasi in the hobby is likely E. truculentus in the wild. The genus has been a holding place for species in the past. I forgot which, but I know that a common Brachypelma was once a Euathlus.

In other words, this genus is beyond a mess. Whatever they are labeled, assume that labeling is right. I will be selling my E. truculentus slings as E. truculentus, but I'll be including a warning to not breed with any WC E. truculentus due to the confusion.

Side note. You know the entire spider isn't red, right? At least it shouldn't be. It's just a tuft of red hair at the base of the abdomen, the rest of the spider is a chalky black.
 

nicodimus22

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IIRC, what was formerly Euathlus Sp. Red is now in another genus entirely and is classified as Homoeomma Sp. Red. So, yup...a mess! :)
 

KezyGLA

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Euathlus red = Homoeomma sp. fire/red

Euathlus sp. yellow can be distinguished from Homoeomma sp. fire/red by adult size, colour of setae on abdomen and the yellow has visible presence of stripes on the patella
 

AphonopelmaTX

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I am going to get Euathlus sp. red adults soon but am kind of confused. Some of the ones labeled as this species are truly red in appearance. Others I see labeled as this species are kind of an orange color. Are the orange ones technically Euathlus sp. yellow? Or do they pass as Euathlus sp. red?
As others have said, Euathlus sp. "Red" is actually Homoeomma sp. "Red" or "Fire". My impression is that the red coloration varies between individuals. The yellow on Euathlus sp. "Yellow", which is also a Hommoeomma sp. by the way, is unmistakably yellow. There are other characters that can be used to distinguish the two species though. Mainly the spermatheca in females. So if you have any doubt as to what species you have, Homoeomma sp. "Yellow" or Homoeomma sp. "Red" wait for a molt, save it and compare the spermatheca to these two pictures on the website of Czech arachnologist Radan Kaderka.

Homoeomma sp. "Red"
Homoeomma sp. "Yellow"

What we call Euathlus truculentus is likely E. pulcherrimaklaasi in the wild, and what we call E. pulcherrimaklaasi in the hobby is likely E. truculentus in the wild. The genus has been a holding place for species in the past. I forgot which, but I know that a common Brachypelma was once a Euathlus.
In a nutshell Euathlus pulcherrimaklassi was determined to have the wrong generic placement and was transferred to the genus Bumba which created the new combination Bumba pulcherrimaklassi. This species has never been in the hobby as far as I know. For more information on all that you can see Perafan & Perez-Miles 2014.

Robert Raven in 1985 considered Euathlus a senior synonym of Brachypelma so anything placed in Brachypelma at that time was considered a Euathlus species. After a bit of back and forth between Gunter Schmidt and Andrew Smith in the literature, Gunter Schmidt was able to justify Brachypelma and Euathlus as two distinct genera.


IIRC, what was formerly Euathlus Sp. Red is now in another genus entirely and is classified as Homoeomma Sp. Red. So, yup...a mess! :)
It is difficult at time discussing tarantula taxonomy and identification on these forums because of the rampant misidentifications made by importers, dealers, etc. Euathlus sp. Red was never transferred to Homoemma, the generic placement has always been incorrect. It's important to make the distinction between transfers, synonymies, etc. and getting a proper ID on tarantulas sold in the hobby. Whenever a tarantula is determined to be of a different genus or species than what someone sells it to you as, it's not a transfer, it is just a correct ID. There are times though where the taxonomic placement of tarantulas are changed and one must verify that the species they have in their collection really is the species that has had a change in nomenclature.

A good example of that to this day is the spider sold as Acanthoscurria brocklehursti. That species is a synonym of A. theraphosoides, but because the spider sold in the hobby as A. brocklehursti is not that species, it would be incorrect to change the label of the spider to A. theraphosoides. The label would need to be changed to A. geniculata because the same research paper that made the A. brocklehursti/ A. theraphosoides synonymy also described the variant of A. geniculata that is sold in the pet trade as A. brocklehursti.

What I am getting at in this long winded response is that although there are plenty of taxonomically messy tarantula taxa, a good portion of the mess talked about in the hobby is due to the improper IDs made by sellers and breeders and the presence of a high number of undescribed species in the pet trade.
 

Ratmosphere

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In this case, would it be looked down upon to breed a captive bred female with a wild caught male?
 

Jeff23

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What about Euathalus (Blue Tiger)? And is this the same as Euathalus Sp. Blue? It almost seems like we have some bleed over from those confusing common names. My female acts just like a Euathalus Sp. Red except "Blue Tiger" does fit on the coloration.

I know this link has been posted before, but it shows how complex the situation is right now. There are still a bunch more beauties in Chile. I wish I could obtain more of them. But in reality, I don't think the hobby is ready for them if we can't even figure out the ones we've got yet.

https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas/theraphosinae-sp-forma-roja--1
 
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KezyGLA

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Euathlus sp. tiger ? Its the dwarf with blue/green femurs but not sp. 'blue' aka 'Blue Femur Beauty'
 

Trenor

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Here are some close up shots of the E. sp Yellow and Red colored hairs. It's pretty easy to tell the color difference between the two species when you look at them side by side.

I can't wait for my E. sp Yellow female to molt and see what she looks like with fresh clothes on.
 

Ratmosphere

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In this case, would it be looked down upon to breed a captive bred female with a wild caught male?
 

c.h.esteban

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Hi
In a nutshell Euathlus pulcherrimaklassi was determined to have the wrong generic placement and was transferred to the genus Bumba which created the new combination Bumba pulcherrimaklassi. This species has never been in the hobby as far as I know. For more information on all that you can see Perafan & Perez-Miles 2014.
The type material of "pulcherrimaklaasi" was not congeneric. Therfore only the holotype male was transfered to the genus Bumba as new combination B. pulcherrimaklaasi. The paratype female was identified as E. truculentus.
So, the statement of eulersk must not be wrong.

And whether B. pulcherrimaklaasi was in the hobby is hard to tell, because the bulb of the holotype is lost and the drawings are poorly. So, there is no proof.

bye
 

Jeff23

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In this case, would it be looked down upon to breed a captive bred female with a wild caught male?
I am not an expert, but I would figure that it would all come down to confidence that both tarantula's are of the same species. If one of them is hobby form, then bred offspring would be hobby form.
 

EulersK

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I am not an expert, but I would figure that it would all come down to confidence that both tarantula's are of the same species. If one of them is hobby form, then bred offspring would be hobby form.
Personally, specifically with Euathlus, I'd be wary. I recently paired @sdsnybny's male E. truculentus with my female... they don't even look like the same species. The female's dls is about 4", the male is 2.5" on a good day. I wouldn't have let that male anywhere near my girl unless I had an identification from an experienced keeper.

EDIT: Wasn't sure, so I just measured. Female is 4.25", male is 2.5".

Female:
IMG_1366.JPG

Male:
IMG_1019.JPG
 
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Jeff23

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Personally, specifically with Euathlus, I'd be wary. I recently paired @sdsnybny's male E. truculentus with my female... they don't even look like the same species. The female's dls is about 4", the male is 2.5" on a good day. I wouldn't have let that male anywhere near my girl unless I had an identification from an experienced keeper.

EDIT: Wasn't sure, so I just measured. Female is 4.25", male is 2.5".

Female:
View attachment 231251

Male:
View attachment 231252
Is anyone in the scientific community even studying this genus? It seems like there are far too few scientists.
 
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