EU verses the U.S.

[Gsc]

Not trying to do anything wrong or illegal. I am just disappointed. Is there anything we can do? I know people have been trying for a long time, I was just wondering.

Also, when someone in a foreign country says "Worldwide shipping", does that mean you (the buyer) need a license, etc? I have really wanted Tityus spp. but have only seen ones that are for sale in Europe.

Well thanks and good luck to us all.

You CAN do something about it- you can LEGALLY import the animals--like mentioned above it's just a matter of time, MONEY & paperwork. "People have been trying a long time" is a nice way to say they've WANTED to do it but never got together the money or wanted to go through the hastles. After the import costs, inspection fees, etc, you'd need to bring in a HUGE amount of inverts to make your money back. Your livestock prices would be high and a majority of the hobby WANTS the species but doesn't want to pay the REAL price for them when they could risk a small illegal shipment and get them for pennies on the dollar...

Yes, the majority of the "worldwide shipping" is illegal "brown boxes" sent into the US... BIG RISK.

Sure there are Tityus for sale in the US from US dealers/people. Heck, I just bought a few from a guy out in California who has baan advertising on the classifieds, Todd Gearheart has at least one species in stock and a few more on his upcoming shipments, Ken the Bug Guy has some CB baies for sale & Kelly Swift has some CB babies for sale... I'm sure there's even more people out there selling them WITHIN THE UNITED STATES... Just keep an eye on the classifieds section (or track down the above people mentioned).

 

[Michiel]

You CAN do something about it- you can LEGALLY import the animals--like mentioned above it's just a matter of time, MONEY & paperwork. "People have been trying a long time" is a nice way to say they've WANTED to do it but never got together the money or wanted to go through the hastles. After the import costs, inspection fees, etc, you'd need to bring in a HUGE amount of inverts to make your money back. Your livestock prices would be high and a majority of the hobby WANTS the species but doesn't want to pay the REAL price for them when they could risk a small illegal shipment and get them for pennies on the dollar...

Yes, the majority of the "worldwide shipping" is illegal "brown boxes" sent into the US... BIG RISK.

Sure there are Tityus for sale in the US from US dealers/people. Heck, I just bought a few from a guy out in California who has baan advertising on the classifieds, Todd Gearheart has at least one species in stock and a few more on his upcoming shipments, Ken the Bug Guy has some CB baies for sale & Kelly Swift has some CB babies for sale... I'm sure there's even more people out there selling them WITHIN THE UNITED STATES... Just keep an eye on the classifieds section (or track down the above people mentioned).

Thank you :clap:

 

[scorpionmom]

No problem man. Now why I asked about your age....
You asked me a question, remember that, and here is my answer:
Your reasoning, choice of words, your (very basis) questions, checking everything etc etc it all points in the direction of a young person around 14 to 16 years of age or someone who's self esteem not very developed yet, as of the brain and all kinds of other stuff (experience, dealing with emotions (Boohoohoo, in Europe they have all the cool stuff and we don't and that's not fair! ) , reasoning etc), which would be normal for a minor.....I am not saying you are a nuttcase!! LOL

Just post an add to what you are searching for and who knows, there are more species in the States than you think

Thanks Michiel. In fact, to tell the truth, I am younger than most of the members here and a bit insecure, but I consider myself to be reasonably experienced. I love the hobby. Thanks for clearing this up. In fact, I did a little research about you and I respect you very much. You seem very knowledgeable about what you do. Again, thanks for the help.

You CAN do something about it- you can LEGALLY import the animals--like mentioned above it's just a matter of time, MONEY & paperwork. "People have been trying a long time" is a nice way to say they've WANTED to do it but never got together the money or wanted to go through the hastles. After the import costs, inspection fees, etc, you'd need to bring in a HUGE amount of inverts to make your money back. Your livestock prices would be high and a majority of the hobby WANTS the species but doesn't want to pay the REAL price for them when they could risk a small illegal shipment and get them for pennies on the dollar...

Yes, the majority of the "worldwide shipping" is illegal "brown boxes" sent into the US... BIG RISK.

Sure there are Tityus for sale in the US from US dealers/people. Heck, I just bought a few from a guy out in California who has baan advertising on the classifieds, Todd Gearheart has at least one species in stock and a few more on his upcoming shipments, Ken the Bug Guy has some CB baies for sale & Kelly Swift has some CB babies for sale... I'm sure there's even more people out there selling them WITHIN THE UNITED STATES... Just keep an eye on the classifieds section (or track down the above people mentioned).

I do it everyday (that is, looking in the classifieds section). I think, when I am even more experienced, that I might try (legally, of course) to bring the hobby into the U.S. Only time will tell. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Gsc]

I do it everyday (that is, looking in the classifieds section).

Here are some Tityus sp. in the US that I found for sale TODAY:

Arachnoboards user: Quixtar (I bought 5 of these from him..healthy and arrived in A+ condition: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=200716&highlight=tityus

Swifts Inverts: http://www.swiftinverts.com/

Tarantula, Inc.: http://www.tarantulainc.com/tarantula_inc_018.htm

Ken the Bug Guy: http://www.kenthebugguy.com/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=1390


I have a female Tityus stigmurus that should be popping within the next month or so... There are many other Arachnoboards users breeding tityus sp. scorps...I know for sure AZJohn is....

Hope that helped.

 

[scorpionmom]

Here are some Tityus sp. in the US that I found for sale TODAY:

Arachnoboards user: Quixtar (I bought 5 of these from him..healthy and arrived in A+ condition: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=200716&highlight=tityus

Swifts Inverts: http://www.swiftinverts.com/

Tarantula, Inc.: http://www.tarantulainc.com/tarantula_inc_018.htm

Ken the Bug Guy: http://www.kenthebugguy.com/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=1390


I have a female Tityus stigmurus that should be popping within the next month or so... There are many other Arachnoboards users breeding tityus sp. scorps...I know for sure AZJohn is....

Hope that helped.

Thanks. In fact I also bought two T. bastosi from Quixtar. I have been watching the T. asthenes on Ken the Bug Guy's website, making sure he doesn't run out. Thanks for all the information. I'll continue looking and hoping for the best!

 

[Gsc]

I have been watching the T. asthenes on Ken the Bug Guy's website, making sure he doesn't run out. Thanks for all the information. I'll continue looking and hoping for the best!

I bought 5 of the T. asthenes from Ken...think he has 3 left listed on his site. They look to be 3i .... I've been out of the hobby for a few years BUT T. asthenes has always been one of my favorites...I have had a few adults over the years and they are just so freakin' amazing.

Good luck!

 

[Korni]

Hi guys!

In Germany there are some federal states where all scorpions are forbidden. This is very said

I think another difference between Germany or other European states und the USA is, that most people in Germany keep a scropion and try to breed it. Besides the germans try to imitate the habitat in the cage as good as possible, so most scorpions feel nativ and breed.

this is one of my Centruroides nigrescens tanks:

I saw many pictures of boxes where only one small bark and sand was in, in Germany most people have nice tanks

Moreover, when there are new species, like the big import of Rhopalurus pintoi, or the import of some Grosphus species, only some month later, there are offers everywhere and the species is spread to many keepers

 

[Michiel]

All those generalizations of Leo about supreme german scorpion keepers

I think we are less trend followers in the EU..We breed more and are not like "Oh, now Uroplectes is hip, and sell off all we have"...

 

[AzJohn]

Their are a lot of issues with the American scorpions hobby. The lack of breeding is a major one. If you look at all the new species that were brought in last year, were are they at now? It looks like we got a bunch of gravid females brought into the country, they had babies, then the adults were gotten rid of. What price list are the CB babies on now? None very few breeders are producing babies for sale.

 

[scorpionmom]

I have really only seen T. bastosi, T. silvestris, T. asthenes, and more rarely T. magnimanus, T. stigmurus, and T. serrulatus available in the United States. Does anyone know of any other species in the U.S? Thanks.

I guess living in Europe does not have many greater opportunities. I should appreciate being able to have scorpions at all. I'll just keep looking! Thanks for all the help.

 

[H. laoticus]

Quick question for the Euros: What is the image being conveyed over there about scorpions? Basically, what is the view of Europeans on scorpions? Just a question to help me understand the hobby/scorpions over there opposed to here.

 

[opistoglyph]

In the US we are facing so many new laws, state, federal and local. Was it two years ago the feds tried to ban the import and sale of ANY non native species with the exception of dogs, cats, and livestock of certain types? If you had anything non-native you would not have been allowed to sell it, trade it, give it away, or move to another state with it. Here in NY scorpions are now illegal. They just missed passing a python ban federally. Now there is a bill that may go through banning import and possession of amphibians. All pressured by animal rights groups and pseudo science, wild tv news claims (like 10 million burmese pythons in the Everglades- on their first hunt they got 37 in two weeks, half of them were escaped pets found in the neighborhood they were reported escaping from their owners, not out in 'the wild'). Every state bans piranhas now, I believe, although no one, NOT ONE DOCUMENTED case of piranha attacking a human en masse in their native haunts or elsewhere has ever occurred.
We have politicians anxious to get their names on laws and get votes, not elected officials making intelligent, informed decisions.

 

[John Bokma]

Quick question for the Euros: What is the image being conveyed over there about scorpions? Basically, what is the view of Europeans on scorpions? Just a question to help me understand the hobby/scorpions over there opposed to here.

Europe is not a single country with states, it are several countries together. I guess it varies from country to country more than in the USA from state to state.

 

[voldemort]

Hi guys!

In Germany there are some federal states where all scorpions are forbidden. This is very said

I think another difference between Germany or other European states und the USA is, that most people in Germany keep a scropion and try to breed it. Besides the germans try to imitate the habitat in the cage as good as possible, so most scorpions feel nativ and breed.

this is one of my Centruroides nigrescens tanks:

I saw many pictures of boxes where only one small bark and sand was in, in Germany most people have nice tanks

Moreover, when there are new species, like the big import of Rhopalurus pintoi, or the import of some Grosphus species, only some month later, there are offers everywhere and the species is spread to many keepers

this post alone whispers complete enclosure reconstruction to my ear

:worship:

 

[H. laoticus]

Europe is not a single country with states, it are several countries together. I guess it varies from country to country more than in the USA from state to state.

I know that lol. One person already commented a bit about Germany, I'd like to hear the rest.

 

[John Bokma]

I know that lol. One person already commented a bit about Germany, I'd like to hear the rest.

I am Dutch (from the Netherlands and Holland, which is not the same ;-) ) but live in Mexico, where my hobby started, so I can't comment much other that I do like to keep my scorpions as natural as possible (will post pics later).

 

[H. laoticus]

I am Dutch (from the Netherlands and Holland, which is not the same ;-) ) but live in Mexico, where my hobby started, so I can't comment much other that I do like to keep my scorpions as natural as possible (will post pics later).

Do you know many hobbyists in Mexico? Maybe you can bring in that perspective. And naturalistic setups are my favorite, so those will be nice to see.

 

[John Bokma]

Do you know many hobbyists in Mexico?

None. I do know some pros though (have been on 2 field trips recently :} ). As for not knowing: I am not a hobby club / social gatherings kind of guy; a forum like this is enough for me (in this case).

 

[Michiel]

Basic human response to arthropods is "Bweeeeeh, scary and gross creatures" This is imprinted behaviour. IAccording to some experiments, even babies (and some monkeys) are scared of spiders.

Anyway, I am also Dutch (from South-Holland in The Netherlands) and we have a small community of scorpion keepers. (www.schorpioenenforum.nl)Tarantulakeeping is more popular and herps are even more popular. General consensus seems to be: scorpions and all those creepy crawlies, are dirty, filthy creatures that have no use. All scorpions are dangerous etc etc.
I always have to explain why I keep arachnids, and I always counterask why they keep dogs or goldfish or hang "art" on their walls or collect coins.....
In intelligent people, fear or ignorance mostly turns to interest and acceptance, sometimes even admiration.....

O, and some people in The NL like naturalistic enclosures and others don't....I am more practically of nature....so no naturalistic set ups for me....You can see my scorpion room on the Venomlist.....

 

[H. laoticus]

Ah, I see. Unfortunately it seems the public's responses there are similar to here. However, many parts of Asia are different from the typical response, wouldn't you say? For example, we can see this due in part to several of Asia's countries' cultures that have centipede/scorpion/cobra drinks and foods. Such venomous creatures are not uncommon in the public eye and are socially accepted. This is just my speculation, no empirical data cited. I wonder how people get into the hobby over there.

Anyway, I guess the question should be: Why do many Euros breed their scorps and why don't a large number of American hobbyists do the same?

I've met quite a few US beginners come in the hobby through sighting a cool looking scorpion at the store and deciding to impulse buy it. They then want one that stings its prey because emps don't and so they get a desert hairy. Those aren't deadly enough, so they go for an LQ. Ah, but those aren't as cool as the fat tail scorps, and so on lol. Like many have stated, there isn't any breeding going on, just the buying of scorps. It's also like a contest to see who can get their hands on the rarest scorpions.
Korni gave us his view on Germany and Michiel has also stated that there is much more breeding going on in the EU than US. Why is this? I don't think profit is the issue because I doubt much would be made on either side, but is it due to other economical circumstances? The US isn't exactly in a great spot right now.