Ethics of Keeping Live Arthropods

GingerC

Arachnosquire
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
117
The centipede videos were on YouTube. The guy was massaging the centipedes in their enclosures. Not sure if it was bravado but they didn't seem to mind. Interesting to watch.
Yeah, but what was the YouTube channel called? Like, the name of the guy who posted it?
 

schmiggle

Arachnoprince
Active Member
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Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,987
Here's a video of him handling a very calm scolopendra gigantea:


If you compare it with his earlier video of a malaysian tiger centipede, you can see that this behavior is not how the centipedes begin initially. However, as you said, this doesn't really prove centipede intelligence. See also the following thread:

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/centipede-intelligence.286925/page-2

I think a lot of arthropods are far more intelligent than we give them credit for. Mantis shrimp can recognize individuals by sight, jumping spiders are well known for their learning abilities, and many arthropods can be conditioned, as you said. However, that doesn't mean that they are upset by being kept in an enclosure. If it seems that they are getting bored, which you can often tell in animals by them not moving around as much, then you can simply reorganize the terrarium. I'm not convinced that would be necessary with almost any arthropod, though.
 

dragonfire1577

Arachnolord
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Oct 7, 2015
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637
I've read in a lot of places that centipedes in particular are very smart, and there's always the oft-cited example of centipedes in a cave hanging down and catching bats, though I find it overblown. I would love to see an actual experiment about it, though.
there is actual video footage of centipedes hanging down catching bats btw it's quite interesting.
 

schmiggle

Arachnoprince
Active Member
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there is actual video footage of centipedes hanging down catching bats btw it's quite interesting.
I'm sure it is. Do you have a link to it? I would love to see it.

However, what I meant was that I think it doesn't necessarily show that much intelligence.
 

dragonfire1577

Arachnolord
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
637
I'm sure it is. Do you have a link to it? I would love to see it.

However, what I meant was that I think it doesn't necessarily show that much intelligence.
I will try and find the link it was on a documentary on tv so it's probably on YouTube lol
 

dragonfire1577

Arachnolord
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Oct 7, 2015
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637
The shots of the actual catch aren't perfect but it appears this pede did succeed in catching a bat off a cave top
 

Salmonsaladsandwich

Arachnobaron
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Jul 28, 2016
Messages
500
The producer threw a bat at it. Or just tong fed the centipede, these are staged.
Probably why the shot gets all shaky when it catches it lol
Evidence?

More likely, they just weren't lucky enough to actually film the centipede catching a bat. Hence why there was no struggling, the footage was taken after the bat was dead and the centipede had begun feeding on it.
(I agree that a lot of documentary footage is staged though- especially the ones where the prey is a house crickets or with discrepancies such an Asian Hierodula mantis eating a South American hummingbird.)

In any case this is a well documented phenomenon:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_three_species_of_bats_in_a_Venezuelan_cave
 

Scythemantis

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Feb 27, 2005
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499
I have to roll my eyes when people dismiss this kind of discussion as mere "anthropomorphism"

It's far sillier to assume that emotion is either rare in nature or indicative of "higher intelligence." Feeling pleasant or unpleasant are extremely simple, basal things and our reluctance to think of other organisms as feeling "happy" or "unhappy" is more than anything else a symptom of our inflated ego as a species. We want to believe what we experience is truly special. Thinking of insects as mindless and unemotional kind of goes back to the fear and revulsion humans have towards them; our culture wants to think of them as alien monsters we have nothing in common with.
 

Salmonsaladsandwich

Arachnobaron
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Jul 28, 2016
Messages
500
I have to roll my eyes when people dismiss this kind of discussion as mere "anthropomorphism"

It's far sillier to assume that emotion is either rare in nature or indicative of "higher intelligence." Feeling pleasant or unpleasant are extremely simple, basal things and our reluctance to think of other organisms as feeling "happy" or "unhappy" is more than anything else a symptom of our inflated ego as a species. We want to believe what we experience is truly special. Thinking of insects as mindless and unemotional kind of goes back to the fear and revulsion humans have towards them; our culture wants to think of them as alien monsters we have nothing in common with.
But in the context of keeping arthropods in captivity, I think it's pretty safe to say that arthropods don't get bored or suffer from a lack of stimulation the way extremely active and intelligent animals do. Even if we assume that a tarantula is capable feeling happy, it's perfectly happy to spend its entire life cramped in a dirt hole.
 

OliverWhatever

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
60
Even if we assume that a tarantula is capable feeling happy, it's perfectly happy to spend its entire life cramped in a dirt hole.
What about mature males, which wander around in the wild searching for males? Species of spiders that don't just stay in a singular hide their entire life? More intelligent spiders like jumping spiders?
I can't find any conclusive research on spider intelligence, most of what I've seen is just a general take on the subject, so I personally feel kinda iffy about making conclusions without anything backing it up.
 

MossMan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
34
Keeping insects is fine. They're happy, and mature males can find mates without risking their lives wandering in the open if you bring a mate to them. I got into an argument with somebody who told me to release my snake because I'm denying it freedom despite having an enclosure larger than the minimum size and care for it as best can. What an idiot :shifty:
 

Salmonsaladsandwich

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
500
What about mature males, which wander around in the wild searching for males? Species of spiders that don't just stay in a singular hide their entire life? More intelligent spiders like jumping spiders?
I can't find any conclusive research on spider intelligence, most of what I've seen is just a general take on the subject, so I personally feel kinda iffy about making conclusions without anything backing it up.
Obviously different arthropods have different requirements depending on their lifestyles, including different ages and sexes within the same species...that was just an example.
 
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