Emp. Babies Dying

PrincessToad

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My black emp. had babies about two weeks ago and the babies just molted and started getting off the moms back. But now they are all dying. They are fine as long as they stay on her back. It seems that as soon as they get off her back they are die. Do you think she is killing them. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have already lost 8 in a 24 hr. span and I would like to save the 10 I have left.
 

Wade

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Whats the cage like? Baby emps need alot of humidity and will dessicate quickly in a dry cage. Also they are prone to drowning in open water bowls. I keep babies with the mom on 4-5 inches of moist peat moss (not soggy wet, but moist like for a typical potted plant).

Also, is it possible you're seeing molted exoskeletons and not dead babies?

Wade
 

PrincessToad

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It might be my humidity levels. I am having a hard time keeping them up. It is so dry here and my substrate dries very quickly. I am doing my best to try and keep the levels up. This is my first time with babies.

I wish it was molted exoskeletons, but I am positive they are dead babies.
Thanks
Erin
 

chau0046

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Remove the young and place them in deli cups lined with paper towel . Make only two little holes and keep it moist. These containers trap humidity. also keep them warm...around 90oF. Feed them dead crickets.

Mat

Keep us posted! and Good luck!!
 

skinheaddave

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For the mother, the best way to maintain humidity is to put a layer of gravel in the bottom of an aquarium, put the peat on top of it and then restrict ventelation. Just keep the gravel layer filled with water (having a filler tube helps) and it should stay nice and humid.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Reitz

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Putting them in their own containers sounds like your best bet (nice suggestion Mat). There's an article published online about a number of things relating to scorpion young. One of which is the relationship between the mother and her kids when they're on her back. It appears, through tests done using radioactive isotopes of water-soluble minerals, that the mother transfers fluid to the young through either water or wax. Once the babies are off of her back, there is no longer an opportunity for transfer. The study showed that young can survive brutally dry conditions so long as they remain on the mother's back. When they are removed, they die.

I'll post a link to the article when I get back from dinner,
in the meantime, you should try to find enough small deli cups to store each one (condiment size). Put either paper towels or a small layer of substrate in the bottom and slightly wet it--just till it's most, you don't want them to drown. Then poke two or three small holes in the top. The conditions inside will be nice and humid, but be careful heating the cups--they can get really warm inside.

Good luck,
Chris
 

chau0046

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Thanx Brother!

I heard that young instars have problems moulting if there on soil and the best to maintain is paper towel. Somebody who breeds Centruroides in the scorpfans group told me this.Any body else find this is true ??.I can see that moist soil could be a problem with soft exoskeletons.

Mat


I covered my 20 gal long Emp Aqu. with a pane of glass and thers about a half inch open at each end and i proped up the whole pane with numerouse little layers of tape untill there was about a 1/4 inch space between the pane and the top of the aqu.
Holds moisture great!!

And for the moisture ..you have to remember that scorps take in air from under there abdomen so the littleist layer of water can flood a little baby scorp and drowned it.
 
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PrincessToad

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Well now I only have 4 babies left. I tried to remove them from the mother. Which was unsuccessful. The mother got really mad and the babies would not leave her back. So I just left them. I did try to change the conditions a little, there is quite a bit of condensation in the tank now. Is this good or bad? I noticed this morning that she has made a burrow and the 4 still on her back look ok. But I seriously don't think they will make it, unless I can remove them from her. Any suggestions on how to successfully remove them from her back? My conditions must be just way too dry, cuz when I got home I noticed the male (who is in exile in another tank) was laying in his water dish and did this for about 2 hrs. I have had the adults for about a year and never seen this behavior. I am starting to get a little discouraged. Thanks for the help.
Erin
 

skinheaddave

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Erin,

To remove the young, your best bet is to take the mother and place her in a large plastic container (nice and slippy). Then use something like a wooden spoon to gently knock the young off. Then just slide the mother away, keep her occupied with the spoon and scoop up the babies. It is easier done with two people, though I managed to succesfuly steal away 23 H.spinifer using this method on my own.

Cheers,
Dave
 

PrincessToad

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Thanks Dave,

I will give this a whirl. I feel like such a bad scorp. parent. I guess I should stick to Ts. Have had great success there. I have been wanting to add to my collection of scorps. Any suggestions on what kind to get? Something that is a little more tolerable to dry conditions. I was thinking maybe a desert hairy.
Peace,
Erin

BTW - humidity for my area yesterday was at 8% and almost 90 degrees, so trying to get my tank at like 80% is very hard to do. I am trying by covering the lid of the tank, except for a few inches. Is there a way to measure humidity in the tank? Thanks again for helping.
 
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skinheaddave

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Erin,

Keeping scorpions, as with all other things, involves both book learning and experience. We are all entitled to some experimentation and some setbacks.

You can get humidity guages at any pet store that stocks reptile type stuff. They are pretty cheap and notoriously inaccurate, but do give you a general idea.

Cheers,
Dave
 

XOskeletonRED

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If you can sustain an enclosure at around 50-55% humidity, desert hairies will do very well. The majority of even the desert scorpions, which are readily avail in the hobby, will prefer
humidity levels nearing 50%, to say the least, though scorpions from your immediate area may rather enjoy the lack of humidity.

Rainforest and other high humidity requiring scorpions are rather difficult to take proper care of when a humidification system is unavailable and no other means have been successful. If you have a perfectly cylindrical shaped container, a humidification device can be built. I removed the lid from mine and hot glued a sponge to it (lengthwise to the shape of the container and the opposing sides of the sponge touch the walls of the container). On one side, I inserted an exhaust tube which routes to the enclosure. On the other side of the sponge, a tube runs from a high output air pump (made for a 175-200 gallon aquarium) to a bubbler which is allowed to hang about an inch below the bottom of the sponge. As long as a good airtight fit is acquired for the system, it will assist to keep higher humidity levels. Mine averages an overall increase in a ten gallon enclosure of 20-30%, while in use. I used a tube that a T I purchased got shipped in, for the cylindrical container. It is about 12-14 inches tall and about five inches in width.


adios,
edw. =D
 

Kugellager

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You problem definitely sounds like humidity.

You need to nearly cover or completely cover the top of the tank with plexiglass or plastic wrap. If you have a constant condensation on the sides/top of tank then humidity is near 100%. Its very easy to keep humidity up of the top is covered. If you do that make sure you use 100% peat for the substrate and remove any left over cricket pieces ASAP. The peat and diligent housekeeping will keep mold from growing.

John
];')
 

PrincessToad

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Ok, well I separated the babies from the mom and boy was she pissed. I put them in separate little deli cups and they lasted about 2 days before they all died. I know that the humidty and temps were up in the deli cups, so I can't figure out where I went wrong. About 5 hrs. after I removed the babies from the mom I put the mom back in the communal tank (big mistake). A couple of hours later I found the mom and the male in a little claw lock going back and force across their hide. (I thought they were perhaps mating). When all of a sudden my female went CRAZY chasing after the male and trying to sting him. I put her back in her tank to fly solo. I noticed that on the hide was something left behind, it was white and looked like a thick string. Could it have been that they mated? :?
Dazed and Confused. :D
 

chau0046

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how Long was this thick string?

Bum Deal about the young , but dont worry about it . It happens.They are very difficult and the Mothers get stressed very easily.Overall , scorpions are a very stressfull animal , so it doesn`t take that much to set them off. From what it sounds, the the white stuff could be a spermatophore from mating, but i beleive it isn`t very long and usually stands up and the female is placed upon it . So her Genital Operculum recieves it and seals up. if it is and is still on the hide then she did not receive it . It might have been a failed attempt of mating.

I found the mom and the male in a little claw lock going back and force across their hide. (I thought they were perhaps mating).
I think so.
 

atavuss

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Re: Thanx Brother!

Originally posted by chau0046
I heard that young instars have problems moulting if there on soil and the best to maintain is paper towel. Somebody who breeds Centruroides in the scorpfans group told me this.Any body else find this is true ??.I can see that moist soil could be a problem with soft exoskeletons.

And for the moisture ..you have to remember that scorps take in air from under there abdomen so the littleist layer of water can flood a little baby scorp and drowned it.
I have had several h. spadix babies molt successfully on a 50/50 mix of forest bed and clean play sand. I agree on small scorps drowning easily, I either wet the substrate and or give them hydrated water polymer crystals.
Ed
 

chau0046

Arachnobaron
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I also heard vermiculite can leave spots on youre scorp`s exo. Its ok if it immature but with adults it stays. Are those crystals the ones you feed crickets with?
good call on those if thats what they are. never really thought about that

Mat
 
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