E cyanognathus sling mysterious death

[Tarantuland]

I had a Ephebopus cyanognathus sling die on me the other day and I’m not sure why. I had it for 8 months, it molted 3-4 times. It didn’t always eat, but it did sometimes. I had it in a small Tupperware with coco fiber, reindeer moss, leaf litter, and a small piece of cork bark, and a tattoo ink cap for water that I always kept filled and overflowed fo give the moisture to the substrate. I almost never saw the spider because it was always in its burrow but I never thought much of it.
Two days ago I saw it out and slightly curled, so I flipped it over gently and dripped some water on it’s fangs then set it right on a full water dish. The next day, yesterday, it was dead in the same place.
I know they’re not all gonna make it, but I’m just wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences with this species.

 

[viper69]

Could have been dehydrated

 

[Tarantuland]

Could have been dehydrated

That’s kind of how it seemed, but I wonder what I could have done differently because I always kept the water dish full the one side of the enclosure damp

 

[l4nsky]

Could have been dehydrated

That's my line of thought as well. @Tarantuland, how much experience have you had with moisture dependent species and their slings? The reason I ask is in the last picture, you can see the majority of the substrate is still quite wet from where you overfilled the water bowl, but there is a small portion of substrate that is still dry towards the top. IMO, that sub looks way too dry for a moisture dependent sling.

 

[Tarantuland]

That's my line of thought as well. @Tarantuland, how much experience have you had with moisture dependent species and their slings? The reason I ask is in the last picture, you can see the majority of the substrate is still quite wet from where you overfilled the water bowl, but there is a small portion of substrate that is still dry towards the top. IMO, that sub looks way too dry for a moisture dependent sling.

My first spider was an LP that’s still doing good coming up on 2 years, but I’ve got a couple pamphos, xenesthis, c elegans, c fimbriatus, and a handful of Theraphosas that are all doing well.

Honestly most of them are larger than this one so it’s easier to keep the moisture up in larger enclosures. Maybe I did let this one get too dried out, but on the side with the water dish I would overflow it often and let it get down into the lower layers of the substrate. I’m also thinking now that maybe I had this sling in too large of an enclosure, maybe I could have optimized the moisture in a deli.


I guess I just have to be more diligent about the moisture dependent species.

 

[l4nsky]

My first spider was an LP that’s still doing good coming up on 2 years, but I’ve got a couple pamphos, xenesthis, c elegans, c fimbriatus, and a handful of Theraphosas that are all doing well.

Honestly most of them are larger than this one so it’s easier to keep the moisture up in larger enclosures. Maybe I did let this one get too dried out, but on the side with the water dish I would overflow it often and let it get down into the lower layers of the substrate. I’m also thinking now that maybe I had this sling in too large of an enclosure, maybe I could have optimized the moisture in a deli.


I guess I just have to be more diligent about the moisture dependent species.

Gotcha, so why I asked is because I couldn't see how deep the sub was or if there was a visible moisture gradient when the enclosure is viewed from the side, or what your level of ventilation is in the enclosure. All of these can also play a role in successfully raising moisture dependant slings. Slings in general are prone to dessication because they don't possess an adult's waxy cuticle, which prevents moisture loss. There tiny size also means that adverse conditions effect them more quickly then those same conditions would for an adult. Adding on top of that some species have moisture requirements even as adults can complicate the matter even further. For the handful of moisture dependant slings I purchased as 2i and 3i, I always kept them in 5.5 oz deli's that were 60-75% filled with substrate with some cork (no water bowl). I utilized at least 4x more cross ventilation holes then top ventilation holes as well. The reason for this is that humid air rises since it's less dense. As it leaves the top ventilation, drier air is pulled in the sides. If the moisture level in the air is less than the moisture level in the sub, water in the sub will evaporate into the air, making it humid, and the cycle continues. If there is more top ventilation then cross ventilation, the sub dries out much, much faster as the humid air escapes faster, drawing in more dry air. Having more cross ventilation than top ventilation retains the humid air for longer, meaning the soil stays moist for a longer period of time, while still allowing a good turnover rate to reduce stagnation of the air. I also kept mine on indirect bottom heat (this really isn't a common or necessary method) to increase the air turnover (hot, humid air rises faster) so when I watered, I could err a little bit on the side of too much, as I knew the enclosures could quickly return to normal with the increased turnover and I could speed their growth up a bit to get them out of the delicate sling stage a bit faster.

Edit: Forgot to add, T's get a lot of moisture from their food, so if a sling isn't eating it's not getting a lot of water. If I notice that, especially around premolt, I'll be making sure I look at their substrate's moisture level when I look at my collection.

 

[Tarantuland]

I had it in one of these, 1.2 cup snapware container with most of the ventilation holes on top but a handful on the sides. I was really hoping it would get rejuvenated after I put it on the water dish, but I'm gonna trust y'alls judgement. I'll heed this advice to prevent any of my other slings from getting dehydrated.

 

[liquidfluidity]

I have had 4. I would agree with dehydration also. I keep my entire sub damp to just below the surface. Also, in my experience, the Blue Fang seem to be a bit more fragile.

You say that you've had it for 8 months, I have one that I've had for 7 that is prolly 2.5" dls. What is your feeding regimen and food.

Next, we need a side shot of the enclosure to see how much substrate and moisture content. These fossorials will build a turret style burrow when younger but like more substrate as they get older.

 

[Tarantuland]

I have had 4. I would agree with dehydration also. I keep my entire sub damp to just below the surface. Also, in my experience, the Blue Fang seem to be a bit more fragile.

You say that you've had it for 8 months, I have one that I've had for 7 that is prolly 2.5" dls. What is your feeding regimen and food.

Next, we need a side shot of the enclosure to see how much substrate and moisture content. These fossorials will build a turret style burrow when younger but like more substrate as they get older.

I was feeding mostly tiny hornworms with occasional black soldier fly larvae, generally offering once per week. I already dumped the substrate from the enclosure, but it was one of the 1.2 cup containers I posted above with about 2/3 full of substrate, just under the divot line on the cups. It molted at least 3 times in my care but was still pretty small though, barely putting on size with each molt.

 

[viper69]

I’m always a bit more careful with this species moisture requirements. They are excellent eaters which helps IME

 

[Tarantuland]

Thanks y’all. I’ll be really careful if I’m to get another. They’re not common where I am and kinda pricy so I’m bummed and frustrated with myself because it seems like this could have been prevented.

 

[liquidfluidity]

Learn from your mistakes and move on. If it's an unfamiliar species, ask here before you add it to your "cart" for purchase.

 

[Tarantuland]

Learn from your mistakes and move on. If it's an unfamiliar species, ask here before you add it to your "cart" for purchase.

I did read about it on here before buying it. I am learning from my mistakes and moving on. Not sure what I did to indicate otherwise. Thanks

 

[ccTroi]

Very sensitive species ime. I purchased eight specimens in 2018 and experienced similar circumstances. I had specimens that (a) burrowed immediately and ate consistently, (b) refused to burrow and eat including prekilled, and (c) burrowed and ate consistently but later resurfaced and constructed web tunnel above substrate level.

I had no problems with the three (a) specimens. Both of the two (b) specimens died within two weeks of acquiring. Two of the three (c) specimens passed away after having molted once since acquiring. Strange and unfamiliar behaviors that somewhat alarm me as I have a few Asian tarantulas that are currently refusing to burrow but different species. Fortunately, I have the opportunity to own the species again.

I utilized at least 4x more cross ventilation holes then top ventilation holes as well. The reason for this is that humid air rises since it's less dense. As it leaves the top ventilation, drier air is pulled in the sides. If the moisture level in the air is less than the moisture level in the sub, water in the sub will evaporate into the air, making it humid, and the cycle continues. If there is more top ventilation then cross ventilation, the sub dries out much, much faster as the humid air escapes faster, drawing in more dry air. Having more cross ventilation than top ventilation retains the humid air for longer, meaning the soil stays moist for a longer period of time, while still allowing a good turnover rate to reduce stagnation of the air. I also kept mine on indirect bottom heat (this really isn't a common or necessary method) to increase the air turnover (hot, humid air rises faster) so when I watered, I could err a little bit on the side of too much, as I knew the enclosures could quickly return to normal with the increased turnover and I could speed their growth up a bit to get them out of the delicate sling stage a bit faster.

Very helpful tips about ventilation and maintaining humidity. Thank you for the reasoning and explanations.

T's get a lot of moisture from their food, so if a sling isn't eating it's not getting a lot of water. If I notice that, especially around premolt, I'll be making sure I look at their substrate's moisture level when I look at my collection.

It’s always stressful when a skinny sling consistently refuses to eat including prekilled. Ever thought of experimenting with blending prey with water for a liquid substitute? I’ve always been curious about trying this.

 

[Scorpiobsession]

It’s always stressful when a skinny sling consistently refuses to eat including prekilled. Ever thought of experimenting with blending prey with water for a liquid substitute? I’ve always been curious about trying this.

This is sometimes used for reptiles (mixing calcium and water) to make sure they are getting calcium. The animals intake it and it is effective however I'm not sure if a tarantula would drink enough water for it to make a difference.

 

[ccTroi]

This is sometimes used for reptiles (mixing calcium and water) to make sure they are getting calcium. The animals intake it and it is effective however I'm not sure if a tarantula would drink enough water for it to make a difference.

I was thinking more in terms of a food substitute in liquid form rather than a water substitute. I've always wondered if a specimen is consistently reluctant to eat prey (live or prekilled), would it be able to survive and grow as any other tarantula on normal means of feeding if it was instead given a liquefied form of a prey for ex crushed, blended superworm.

 

[l4nsky]

It’s always stressful when a skinny sling consistently refuses to eat including prekilled. Ever thought of experimenting with blending prey with water for a liquid substitute? I’ve always been curious about trying this.

Interesting concept, but I don't quite know how effective it would be. The prey/water slurry would quickly begin to rot as the bacteria would absolutely love it. Without a way to administer it directly, it would quickly become a cess pool IMO

 

[Scorpiobsession]

I was thinking more in terms of a food substitute in liquid form rather than a water substitute. I've always wondered if a specimen is consistently reluctant to eat prey (live or prekilled), would it be able to survive and grow as any other tarantula on normal means of feeding if it was instead given a liquefied form of a prey for ex crushed, blended superworm.

Even assuming that it lasted I don't think the tarantula would see it as water and drink it.