Drunken Spider, Hidden Cricket

Rookie

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
283
Hey all,
I tossed in a cricket to see if it's pre-molt or if Peso will just get fatter. Nothin' yet, but Peso's walking like he's had a few. A little staggery and shakey. Thoughts, theories?
Paul
 

JacenBeers

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Messages
1,265
Jack Daniels paid a visit in the wee hours of the morning.
 

looseyfur

Arachnofur
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
431
webbing

is he webbing? maybe hes webbing to get ready to molt...

shrugs- I am sure hes fine

looseyfur
 

Gillian

Arachnoblessed
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
1,123
Originally posted by Rookie
Hey all,
I tossed in a cricket to see if it's pre-molt or if Peso will just get fatter. Nothin' yet, but Peso's walking like he's had a few. A little staggery and shakey. Thoughts, theories?
Paul
Could Peso be a bit dehydrated?

Peace,
Gillian
 

Rookie

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
283
Not sure, I took out the cricket because Peso ain't bitin'. Looks like pre-molt again. He shouldn't be denying food otherwise because he hasn't eaten since monday. I'm gonna mist just to be safe, and for now I'm assuming that Peso is in pre-molt #2 under my care. As you can all guess, I'll keep you posted on that.
Paul
 

Exodus

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
220
Cool,I was wondering can anyone tell me why the abdomen isn't smaller after a molt in some cases?
 

Botar

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,442
Exodus,

I don't know on that one. It wouldn't make sense to me if the T is continuing to increase in size. If it is full grown, it may not lose as much size in the abdomen. Perhaps any size loss is not noticed due to new colors and hairs.

Botar
 

invertepet

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
608
The abdomen needn't shrink (much) after a molt. All that's happening (other than the shedding of the rather thin outermost cuticle layer and formation of a new one) is the use of water to form a fluid barrier between the old and new layers and to swell the spider and force the old outer layer to open. It's not like the lymph and/or water is going anywhere other than the spider. I think most abdominal shrinkage you may find among tarantulas is due mostly to the lack of feeding during the pre-molt phase (which can take weeks).

bill
 

Botar

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,442
Bill,

Just to clarify your point, when a T is young (sling) and experiencing quite a bit of growth from molt to molt, the abdomen would shrink quite a bit with the transfer of fluids to the new and larger exoskeleton. Wouldn't that be correct? My point was that when it is mature, the molt will be more like what you have described. IME, even in the situation with adult T's the abdomen will still shrink a bit, although not as noticeable. Please correct me if I'm wrong... I believe you've got quite a bit more experience than I have.

Botar
 

happymeal

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
45
but Peso's walking like he's had a few. A little staggery and shakey. Thoughts, theories?
Mine did the same thing, then a few days latter he molted. Should not be any thing to worry about!!
 

invertepet

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
608
I'm no ecdysis (molting) expert, I suppose it would stand to reason that a smaller spider could show more abdominal change when molting since its mass is less and the ratio of cuticle to water may be higher than in larger, older spiders. I have noticed spiderlings in general do seem to 'deflate' more than adults and seem more ravenous after.

FWIW, I believe ecdysis is summarized (in generic arthropod terms) thusly (any corrections on this are welcome - it's taken mostly from a generic arthropod text on molting and biology):

1) The intermolt phase (which is the longest)-
Here the cuticle is complete with endocuticle and exocuticle. The animal accumulates food reserves storing glycogen and lipids. This period is longer for adults, so naturally you're dealing with more 'resources' to draw upon (relatively speaking, even though there's more cuticle mass on an adult tarantula).

2) The pre-molt phase-
Rise in lymph/blood calcium levels as nutrients and calcium in old cuticle is resorbed. Dissolution of connection between cuticle and epidermis (apolysis) occurs. A new cuticle is then formed under the old one.

3) Molt-ecdysis.
A new soft exoskeleton appears under the old one. The body swells with water pressure. Old exoskeleton cracks. Animal extricates itself from the old molt. Continues secretion of new cuticle.

4) Post-molt phase
The hardening of the exoskeleton is called sclerotization and generally takes longer with increasing arthropod size.

...Not sure if this necessarily clarifies anything, but it's interesting.

bill
 

ArachnoJoost

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
533
My thoughts: I think that abdomens of spiderlings do not always become much smaller, although it might seem that way. It's just that the cephalothorax and legs become much bigger, thus making the abdomen seem comparatively small. With adults molting the ceph and legs don't really grow, so the abdomen doesn't look small (or smaller). I think the comparison between the ceph - legs and the abdomen is a bit eye-deceiving
 
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