Do inverts feel pain?

[johns]

Hi, Code-

Glad you found some use for the invertebrate pain articles I sent you!

 

[johns]

Whoami,


You're absolutely right about Code Monkey's "opinion" about nocioceptive response in inverts, for that's exactly what it is- an informed opinion.

May I suggest reading the article;ILAR News Vol 33(1-2)
... morphine-induced thermal response in the terrestrial ... and naloxone on a defensive response ... Ethical
Treatment of Invertebrates: How do ... on the recognition of pain ...
http://www4.nas.edu/cls/ijhome.nsf/44bf87db309563a0852566f2006d63bb/7e63cb4f4c3f9982852568dc005243a8


Sorry:8o: I still don't know how to use links!

 

[whoami?]

Thanks, johns!

This is more along the lines of what I was hoping for: that is, results from actual experiments. This article really doesn't seem to settle the issue one way or the other, and I am still left thinking that we just don't know whether or not invertebrates feel pain. Throughout this article are several issues brought up by Code Monkey and myself, and it's good to see them presented together with support from hard data. I must admit, though, that I failed to consider cephalopods, which are a more convincing (if uncertain) example of invertebrates that PROBABLY feel pain. Still, there is some dispute about the cephalopods, and arthropods are generally considered even "lower" organisms. So I obviously am not convinced that our beloved tarantulas feel pain either. But here's an interesting quote from the article:

"Although pain might seem less likely in the more "simple" invertebrates, than in the most "complex" invertebrates, such as the cephalopod mollusks (and, perhaps, decapod crustaceans such as crabs and lobsters, not considered here), this certainly does not mean that the more "simple" invertebrates ought not to be afforded respect."

Throughout this discussion, I thought I sensed this issue lurking below the surface, and thought that it might have been the cause of some kneejerk responses against me. As an invert owner, I can understand this and I definitely agree. To say that invertebrates don't feel pain makes them seem more "alien,"and thus expendable to us. We as a species are most respectful of animals that are like us, and for that reason I can understand wanting to think that invertebrates feel pain, if it has the effect of making them more tolerable in the public eye.

Still, I cannot in good conscience say that they DO feel pain when the issue remains unresolved. Truth-claims about nature DO require hard evidence, and absent evidence, those truth claims need to be either discarded or put on hold.

Later.

 

[MatisIsLoveMantisIsLyf]

I've tried hitting a fly against the wall multiple times, she seemed ok. The thing is, they dont have bones on the inside, and their neurons are limited, so they most likely dont feel pain

 

[LawnShrimp]

Hate to break it to ya but nobody's posted here for 15 years.

 

[MatisIsLoveMantisIsLyf]

yeah i know but i still replied XD

 

[7Fin]

They're built with nerves made with sensors to create pain, just like us. I think that they feel pain, pleasure, distress, fear, and relief just like we can, maybe not as deeply as we do, but they feel it.

 

[Whitelightning777]

An animal that didn't feel pain would be at such a huge disadvantage that it certainly would not have outlived the dinosaurs!!

Whether or not they have memory or can even learn at all is a far more interesting question.

 

[schmiggle]

Whether or not they have memory or can even learn at all is a far more interesting question.

They can and do. But even flatworms can learn. Flatworms in particular continue to store memories even after being decapitated.

 

[TylerFishman5675]

Invertabrates are nothing more than machines with primitive nervous systems and hemolymph, arthropods are entirely instinct based, think of you pulling your finger away from a burning stove that kind of instinct, think about how monarchs migrate to Mexico, or how ants will kill their own mother if they find her unfit, entirely instinct arthropods do not have emotion and emotions are typically what exacerbate pain and make it such a debatable topic, insects dont feel emotion, if you raised a tarantula from a sling, sure it may tolertae you somewhat more but it wont hesitate to try and injure you just for opening the lid on its container or running in fear of predation even though its just what feeds it every few weeks, its fun to anthrpromorphize our invertabrate pets and think they have seprate personalities that are entirely distict and unique in their mannersisms, but they truth is they are just following whats inside them

 

[johanliam]

I think they do feel pain. Their neurons are smaller but still functions just like ours, just a lot less steps behind. they can even be trained. Check this out,

_______________________________________
Pest Control DC

 

[TylerFishman5675]

I think they do feel pain. Their neurons are smaller but still functions just like ours, just a lot less steps behind. they can even be trained. Check this out,

_______________________________________
Pest Control DC

The fly is not trained it is simply trying to get to higher, safer ground, all insects can do this.

 

[mconnachan]

Unfortunately these are questions and answers we will never know, we all have opinions whether right or wrong, we can only guess whether these animals feel pain - however if a spider were to walk onto a hot surface for instance I can assure you it would feel the heat and therefor remove itself rather quickly, do you think it would stay on the hot surface and let itself become burned....you decide.
I know what my spiders would do!