DIY Substrate - Overly complicated version!

[feelahthetigress]

Hello everyone! I am relatively new to millipedes (only owned some for about a month), but I have been lurking on the forum and the rest of the interwebs doing research and absorbing knowledge, plus I've kept snails for quite some time. So, in my fervor of excitement, I have invented a substrate recipe that, while possibly overly complicated, might still be effective. I would appreciate any input from more experienced keepers on my ratios/ingredients (all "part" measurements are by volume - I used quarts).

For Average Millipedes:
-Coir – 3 parts
-Leaf Compost – 3 parts
-Dried Leaves (crushed) – 1 part
-Sawdust – 1 part
-Aspen Shavings – ½ part
-Rotted Hardwood – 1 part
-Ground Oyster Shell Flour – ½ part
-Dried leaves for top of substrate – scatter some on top


For Feather Millipedes:
-Rotten wood – 7 parts
-Dried Leaves (crushed) – 1 part
-Sawdust – ½ part
-Coir – ½ part
-Aspen Shavings – ½ part
-Dried Sphagnum Moss – ¼ part (also add a little to the top of the substrate)
-Ground Oyster Shell Flour – ¼ part
-Dried leaves for top of substrate – scatter a few on top
-A couple large chunks/pieces of rotten wood – scatter on top of substrate


P.S. - Shoutout to Hisserdude for his excellent directions on how to ferment sawdust, and for answering my questions so nicely on his blog!

 

[Arthroverts]

While those are good recipe's, I think that those are a little too complicated, especially when just the coir, crushed leaves and rotted hardwood, with maybe some of that leaf compost, will benefit the millipede's just as much or better than the complicated recipe. The ground oyster shell flower is not needed, and the whole leaves, while they look nice, will only be nibbled on a little bit. I would suggest you go with something simpler. It will save you time and money, and do just as good.
For the feather millipedes, the rotting wood and maybe a little bit of leaves is all that's needed.

Hope this help's.

 

[BobBarley]

Shoutout to Hisserdude

@Hisserdude

^This way it shows up on his alerts.^

 

[feelahthetigress]

While those are good recipe's, I think that those are a little too complicated, especially when just the coir, crushed leaves and rotted hardwood, with maybe some of that leaf compost, will benefit the millipede's just as much or better than the complicated recipe. The ground oyster shell flower is not needed, and the whole leaves, while they look nice, will only be nibbled on a little bit. I would suggest you go with something simpler. It will save you time and money, and do just as good.
For the feather millipedes, the rotting wood and maybe a little bit of leaves is all that's needed.

Hope this help's.

Doubtless you are correct, but I just want to be sure...that's not a dangerous amount of calcium to add to a substrate, is it?

 

[feelahthetigress]

@Hisserdude

^This way it shows up on his alerts.^

Thanks, I was wondering about that...

 

[Hisserdude]

Nice work, glad you were able to get your sawdust to ferment! (I'm having some trouble with my current batch...). For the "Average Millipede Mix", I'd suggest drastically reducing or completely leaving out the coir, that stuff is unpalatable and has zero nutrition, and the millipedes may not be able to pick out the sawdust or other edible particulate matter from all the coir, and thus may end up ingesting a lot of the coir instead of their actual food. You can have the bottom layer of substrate be coconut fiber and the top couple inches made up of the other materials if you need more depth for them to create suitable molting chambers, but it should not be actually mixed in with the other stuff IMO.

 

[feelahthetigress]

Nice work, glad you were able to get your sawdust to ferment! (I'm having some trouble with my current batch...). For the "Average Millipede Mix", I'd suggest drastically reducing or completely leaving out the coir, that stuff is unpalatable and has zero nutrition, and the millipedes may not be able to pick out the sawdust or other edible particulate matter from all the coir, and thus may end up ingesting a lot of the coir instead of their actual food. You can have the bottom layer of substrate be coconut fiber and the top couple inches made up of the other materials if you need more depth for them to create suitable molting chambers, but it should not be actually mixed in with the other stuff IMO.

If I were to replace the coir with something else, what would you add more of?

 

[Hisserdude]

If I were to replace the coir with something else, what would you add more of?

Equal parts of sawdust and leaf compost would be preferable.

 

[feelahthetigress]

Okay, I shall alter it!

 

[Hisserdude]

Okay, I shall alter it!

Good, hope your millipedes do well for you! (The added wood and leaves may also provide extra reproduction impetus! )

 

[mickiem]

Sounds like you've got a great start! What kind of millipedes are you keeping? What is oyster shell flour; where do you get it? I use bird grit from the pet store, but I would like something finer.

I have always used coir. The substrate seems to compact if I don't. I've tried bamboo leaves and extra aspen to lend a better texture but still, the substrate felt heavy and compacted.

I keep a very deep substrate; at least their length deep. I also keep it on the wet side. Maybe this is why it seems so dense; there's more of it.

It will be interesting if others weigh in on this.

BTW, I don't think you can be complicated enough when you are starting out, you need to keep youy eyes open to learn. Good luck!

 

[Hisserdude]

I have always used coir. The substrate seems to compact if I don't. I've tried bamboo leaves and extra aspen to lend a better texture but still, the substrate felt heavy and compacted.

I keep a very deep substrate; at least their length deep. I also keep it on the wet side. Maybe this is why it seems so dense; there's more of it.

It will be interesting if others weigh in on this.

Compacting isn't necessarily a bad thing, pretty sure they'd still be able to dig around in it fine. From the pictures I've seen in Orin McMonigle's book, his substrate always looks pretty compact and dense looking, that's how rotten wood is supposed to feel like when sufficiently rotten, and thus should be what you aim for in a millipede's substrate.

 

[Hisserdude]

OK, so according to Orin McMonigle's book, "Millipeds in Captivity":

"Quality substrate includes a base and a food component. A base substrate is used for the bottom inch or two and edible substrate is placed on top. The base retains moisture and allows for burrowing. A portion of the food substrates is mixed in so tiny millipeds don't have to travel far without finding food".

He lists compost, coconut fiber and potting soil as base substrates, and rotten wood, decaying leaves and sawdust as food substrates.

This substrate method makes the most sense to me, you can still use coir at the bottom to add more depth to the substrate and help retain moisture, and then place most of the nutritious substrate on top so they don't have to sift through the other stuff to get to their food.