Directly Misting The Tarantula

Peregrin

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
21
depth wise perhaps but a 3 inch spider in a 4 inch diameter container? idk.
Let's put it this way. In the wild, a burrowing spider would have more or less just enough space for itself in the burrow. I think you're thinking that the space isn't enough because it wouldn't be able to molt. Again, in the wild, a t wouldn't go outside of its burrow to molt. Think about it. If the t got out of it's burrow and sat on open ground for hours while showing off it's most vulnerable side, wouldn't that be more dangerous than molting in a tight space? It would feel much more secure in a tight space since it would be able to feel all the vibrations around it. I've also seen them molt in their burrows and if it's too small, tey could just fold their legs. And ts spend most of their time in burrows or hidnig spots. They don't actively hunt food. They're opportunistic. They just need a home.

And in a tight container, the t could think that its entire container is its burrow.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,765
lol freedumb, I was in no way being snarky with you, I legitimately was wondering if I was hard to follow.

In case you didn't notice, I DIDN'T discount everything he said, I even explained how I had used his housing method WITH SUCCESS. In perusing the thread I can't see a single place where someone told of their misting views/experiences where the op was willing to even consider their info, he just repeatedly asked for "proof", IMO experience and the observations that come with it, are the proof. And I even went as far at to tell him not to worry about being "lambasted". I look and see a snarky attitude coming from your way...its all in the perception on the reader, doesn't make it automatically so.

I haven't done anything with feelings or emotions other than to say they don't belong in the conversation.

I wasn't the one telling him he was being abusive and I wasn't referring to my experience, but rather the experience of the collective group...alone my experience doesn't mean much. When just about everybody shares the experience, it does.

I asked if I was hard to follow, simply because I am in basic agreement with you, yet you don't seem to realize that....it was a very legitimate question, if I am being unclear, I would certainly like to know, wouldn't you?

I'm so done with this thread, there's really nothing positive here, I'm not here to get in ridiculous spats based on misunderstandings.
 

freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
1,430
The basic thing we are disagreeing on is the OP and his disposition. The emotions and differing methods we've already discussed elsewhere and are in agreement on - the point I was making is the OP is not being headstrong as so many newbies are, and so many people have written him off when he doesn't deserve that.
 

goodoldneon

Arachnoknight
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
243
So far, no one has tried reasoning with me. For one thing, I'm not promoting either side but you seem to think I am. If you can provide one compelling reason for me to rethink my position, I would be more than willing to listen. As I said, neither side of this has a valid scientific reason that can be proven other than their opinion on what they observe. At least the OP is honest enough to admit that. I'm afraid that belief does not constitute proof and never has. If it did, the earth would have been flat and at the center of the universe.



If you want to try reason, give this a shot. Explain to me how my argument is invalid and yours is valid. That's all I ask. If you can't at least try then maybe it isn't me that can't be reasoned with. It should be a simple request and I will listen to any and all replies but so far, not a single person has addressed any of the points I've brought up. If you are right, I will gladly concede. I am not trying to be right because I'm not on a side. I've already said I don't mist and don't intend to. I just don't really buy into the argument 'everybody knows it's true so it must be true'. That's a lazy answer and I don't buy it.
Try this, the next time you have guests over, and one of them requests a glass of water, walk out to the garden, get your house, return to the house, and spray them with it. When they react, no doubt negatively, explain that is no empirical, peer reviewed evidence that what they are feeling is unwelcome, nor will it result in long term harm or stress. I'm guessing most if not all will either flee the stream of water, scream, "Stop! Are you insane?", possibly take a swing at you, or simply leave - i.e. - retreat. You could, if you were so inclined, make the argument that it could even be beneficial, assuming they haven't showered lately.

Tarantulas, of course, can't tell us how they're feeling, they can, however, speak through body language. One could choose, as is the case with the OP, to simply disregard the tarantulas behavior, but that, I think, is disrespectful. I could, if I chose, briefly remove my daughter's goldfish from it's tank, and blow dry it for several seconds - all the while ignoring its thrashing and obvious discomfort. Chances are, it would survive the ordeal, and all similar future ordeals. After all, there is no scientific evidence buttressing the negative effects of blow drying fish - the science simply hasn't been performed. So, based on your current line of reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable.

I avoid or otherwise make more palatable vegetables my daughter does not like. Or, ideally, serve her those she will eat. Dentists take pains to ensure their patients are comfortable, through the use of Novocain or an anesthetic - i.e. - where possible, we go out of our way to avoid causing stress in others, human or otherwise.

Unless, of course, one is a sadist or a sociopath.
 

Nicolas C

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 13, 2014
Messages
73
It's fascinating how some threads sounds like soap operas! I read them with a kind of smile because of what these threads causes! And I must admit I have fun!!!

I think Python's replies are very interesting, because he asks about facts, and to come out of some dogmatics answers ("it is well known...", "it's always been like that...", etc.). It's good in such a forum to have the opportunity to question our "knowledge" and to open our minds! Sharing our experiences and discoveries (even scientific ones) is good. We shouldn't be so afraid of people doing things in a different way, as soon as it doesn't harm the T. Rather, it's a possibility to learn new things (and it has been a long road of learning, when we read some 20 years old books about T husbandry...!)

About misting, I've never mist my Ts so far, except inadvertently. Every time it happened, I've seen my T being scared and running away. Secondly, I know that the T won't be able to drink this way, as was stated before. Third, I've never read an article or book saying that it's good to do it. For all these reasons, I don't mist myself. But I've realised there are other possible ways in reading this thread.

I wanted to say something about the post of Advan, some pages ago.

You have a lot to learn. There are many, many things wrong with Stan's husbandry advice for many species. Not to mention all the other issues with the book that he likes to present as fact and are in reality his opinion.

This quote is absolutely ridiculous. Common sense should tell you, you need to research the place the species you are keeping is from and mimic the seasons, temperatures and humidity for the spider to thrive. How does keeping a Brazilian rainforest species the same as a species from the Sonoran Desert sound OK to you? That is surviving(not thriving) and borderline abuse. Keep researching and welcome to the boards. :)
After reading Schultz, I had the feeling that he wasn't saying his way was the only way. He even speaks about Marshall (and lots other authors) doing things in a more naturalistic way and saying it's good too. But the "dry enclosure" for almost every T, which is absolutely not natural, is more practical (specially for beginners) and avoids some problems (like mold and pests).

I've been keeping Ts for a little more than 5 years now. That's not so much, and I'm still learning. But I've been using dry enclosures with waterdishes for them all, with an extra careful watch on how they will react. Sometimes I'm increasing humidity a little bit when a molt is coming (because I'm a rather anxious man!). What I've noticed so far is this: almost all my T were eating, rather calm, not standing over the waterdish, not restless, in short: I couldn't see any signs of problems. Only my T stirmi and my X immanis seemed to need more RH, which I've provided when I saw that. I've never had a molt issue so far. I'm not able to say if a T is thriving or only surviving, if it's happy or not, it's beyond my capacities. But as far as I can see, my Ts show no signs of being suffering.

Trying to mimic the natural environment is excellent, I think, when it's possible to do it (and I know some people who are doing it in a great way!). But for me, it's way to difficult, there too many parameters I'm not able to take into considerations, and I assume that the captivity is not natural for them. That's why I still find Schultz advices very useful for me, and I'm still following them. Maybe is there no "good way / bad way" between the two positions, but only two possibilities which are ok for the T (once again: as far as we know... it's so difficult to understand what these creatures are really feeling/thinking...!).
 

Python

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
631
Try this, the next time you have guests over, and one of them requests a glass of water, walk out to the garden, get your house, return to the house, and spray them with it. When they react, no doubt negatively, explain that is no empirical, peer reviewed evidence that what they are feeling is unwelcome, nor will it result in long term harm or stress. I'm guessing most if not all will either flee the stream of water, scream, "Stop! Are you insane?", possibly take a swing at you, or simply leave - i.e. - retreat. You could, if you were so inclined, make the argument that it could even be beneficial, assuming they haven't showered lately.

Tarantulas, of course, can't tell us how they're feeling, they can, however, speak through body language. One could choose, as is the case with the OP, to simply disregard the tarantulas behavior, but that, I think, is disrespectful. I could, if I chose, briefly remove my daughter's goldfish from it's tank, and blow dry it for several seconds - all the while ignoring its thrashing and obvious discomfort. Chances are, it would survive the ordeal, and all similar future ordeals. After all, there is no scientific evidence buttressing the negative effects of blow drying fish - the science simply hasn't been performed. So, based on your current line of reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable.

I avoid or otherwise make more palatable vegetables my daughter does not like. Or, ideally, serve her those she will eat. Dentists take pains to ensure their patients are comfortable, through the use of Novocain or an anesthetic - i.e. - where possible, we go out of our way to avoid causing stress in others, human or otherwise.

Unless, of course, one is a sadist or a sociopath.
OK, for your first point, you are correct in your assertion that my guests would freak out if I hosed them down. But they are not captive and reliant upon me for their every need. If they need a bath, they go home and get one. Of course those that are dependent on us do get hosed down from time to time. Invalids get bathed as well as uncooperative prisoners. House guests aren't really in the same situation so I don't think it's very analogous. The fish thing, I'm not sure what that's about. As for the rest, you are absolutely correct, we do strive to make things more palateable/pleasant, but if we can't, we still do it. Thousands of people had body parts removed or other surgeries without anasthetic during the civil war and I bet that was unpleasant. Not everything good is pleasant and not everything pleasant is good. That is my entire point. I'm not arguing in favor of misting, I'm just saying it may not be as bad as you think.
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
741
OK, for your first point, you are correct in your assertion that my guests would freak out if I hosed them down. But they are not captive and reliant upon me for their every need. If they need a bath, they go home and get one. Of course those that are dependent on us do get hosed down from time to time. Invalids get bathed as well as uncooperative prisoners. House guests aren't really in the same situation so I don't think it's very analogous. The fish thing, I'm not sure what that's about. As for the rest, you are absolutely correct, we do strive to make things more palateable/pleasant, but if we can't, we still do it. Thousands of people had body parts removed or other surgeries without anasthetic during the civil war and I bet that was unpleasant. Not everything good is pleasant and not everything pleasant is good. That is my entire point. I'm not arguing in favor of misting, I'm just saying it may not be as bad as you think.

very good points imo.


troll thread
Yeah, I pointed that out several posts ago.. the OP was definitely trolling for drama.. and unfortunately, too many of us bit the bait. hook, line and sinker. Notice the OP Hasn't chimed in for quite a while?
 

freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
1,430
troll thread
No, the OP was not. I have spoken with him via PM. He is no troll.

---------- Post added 09-21-2014 at 10:09 PM ----------

Yeah, I pointed that out several posts ago.. the OP was definitely trolling for drama.. and unfortunately, too many of us bit the bait. hook, line and sinker. Notice the OP Hasn't chimed in for quite a while?
If you asked an honest question and were accused of ignorance and abuse, how long would *you* hang around?
 

Peregrin

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
21
Try this, the next time you have guests over, and one of them requests a glass of water, walk out to the garden, get your house, return to the house, and spray them with it. When they react, no doubt negatively, explain that is no empirical, peer reviewed evidence that what they are feeling is unwelcome, nor will it result in long term harm or stress. I'm guessing most if not all will either flee the stream of water, scream, "Stop! Are you insane?", possibly take a swing at you, or simply leave - i.e. - retreat. You could, if you were so inclined, make the argument that it could even be beneficial, assuming they haven't showered lately.
Sometimes my tarantulaa tap their containers begging for water... So i drown the whole enclosure in water. My darlingi likes this because it swims and does tricks such as backflip in midair and sometimes, it would do a backstroke.

I am thinking it's beneficial since it replaces the water dish. I wet the ground it's sitting on and the whole enclosure. Directly misting the t is the best way i've found to wet the ground it's own. I disregard the body language because i think it's necessary. And i really don't like water dishes.

---------- Post added 09-22-2014 at 10:32 AM ----------

Yeah, I pointed that out several posts ago.. the OP was definitely trolling for drama.. and unfortunately, too many of us bit the bait. hook, line and sinker. Notice the OP Hasn't chimed in for quite a while?
If I you knew I was a troll, then why keep subscribing to the thread. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your company.
 
Last edited:

Python

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
631
Interestingly enough, I have gotten more positive feedback from this thread than any other, much of it from people who haven't posted to this thread. It's interesting to see the responses and the reactions to something like this. Several people have called troll on this but there is the potential for a lot of good information to change hands here. There are people on both sides of the fence here and they have the opportunity to share their ideas and opinions on this subject and that's healthy. The more the merrier I always say. I've followed this thread from the beginning and I've seen the heated responses that some people gave. Some of them may have been looking to rile folks up, most were just stating their opinions on the matter and that's ok. To everyone who was genuinely sharing to try to make the community a better place, I say kudos to you regardless of which side you are on. People get very emotional when talking about their pets and their children so it's very easy to let emotion get in the way of objectivity. No one can be blamed for that, it's what makes them good pet owners. In the end, it's whether the animals thrive or not that makes a difference. If they are eating well, molting well and there are no problems with them, I wouldn't worry about a little water being spritzed on them.
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
741
No, the OP was not. I have spoken with him via PM. He is no troll.

---------- Post added 09-21-2014 at 10:09 PM ----------


If you asked an honest question and were accused of ignorance and abuse, how long would *you* hang around?
Sometimes my tarantulaa tap their containers begging for water... So i drown the whole enclosure in water. My darlingi likes this because it swims and does tricks such as backflip in midair and sometimes, it would do a backstroke.

I am thinking it's beneficial since it replaces the water dish. I wet the ground it's sitting on and the whole enclosure. Directly misting the t is the best way i've found to wet the ground it's own. I disregard the body language because i think it's necessary. And i really don't like water dishes.

---------- Post added 09-22-2014 at 10:32 AM ----------



If I you knew I was a troll, then why keep subscribing to the thread. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your company.
Interestingly enough, I have gotten more positive feedback from this thread than any other, much of it from people who haven't posted to this thread. It's interesting to see the responses and the reactions to something like this. Several people have called troll on this but there is the potential for a lot of good information to change hands here. There are people on both sides of the fence here and they have the opportunity to share their ideas and opinions on this subject and that's healthy. The more the merrier I always say. I've followed this thread from the beginning and I've seen the heated responses that some people gave. Some of them may have been looking to rile folks up, most were just stating their opinions on the matter and that's ok. To everyone who was genuinely sharing to try to make the community a better place, I say kudos to you regardless of which side you are on. People get very emotional when talking about their pets and their children so it's very easy to let emotion get in the way of objectivity. No one can be blamed for that, it's what makes them good pet owners. In the end, it's whether the animals thrive or not that makes a difference. If they are eating well, molting well and there are no problems with them, I wouldn't worry about a little water being spritzed on them.

Fair enough, it's easy to get into misunderstandings when communicating something in text only, with no body language or facial cues. This, combined with potential language barriers and cultural biases, I get that. Ok, if I mistook the original post to the thread then I apologize. I still don't agree with not having, in my opinion, enough floor space for a terrestrial T, whether it's a burrower or not. I am completely ambiguous to misting and honestly if I had a T that upturned and or filled the dish with substrate every time right away after filling it I'd remove the water dish also in favor of simply dampening part of the substrate every couple of days. Like I said before though, I wish everyone could just agree to disagree on some of these points. I'm new to the boards, new to T's and new to the whole experience. There definitely is a learning curve; and I don't want to see good people go to blows over something so trivial in the long run.
 

freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
1,430
There definitely is a learning curve; and I don't want to see good people go to blows over something so trivial in the long run.
Keep in mind most people don't take this personal. This isn't the first cold and I sniped at each other, and it won't be the last. But 90%+ of the time we are on the same page - and I guarantee he was just as personally *unoffended* by me telling him to drop the snark as I was at his comments toward me. I made a point to continue in this thread because the OP reached out to me - and not at all to ask for defense but to express his desire to genuinely learn. So, despite asking the thread to end a couple pages back, I returned because I didn't want to see someone wanting to grow as a keeper run off. We need to keep this in mind before.we toss.out.accusations of troll or abuse
This person wants to learn - and I want to help facilitate his desire.
 

BobGrill

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
1,665
Keep in mind most people don't take this personal. This isn't the first cold and I sniped at each other, and it won't be the last. But 90%+ of the time we are on the same page - and I guarantee he was just as personally *unoffended* by me telling him to drop the snark as I was at his comments toward me. I made a point to continue in this thread because the OP reached out to me - and not at all to ask for defense but to express his desire to genuinely learn. So, despite asking the thread to end a couple pages back, I returned because I didn't want to see someone wanting to grow as a keeper run off. We need to keep this in mind before.we toss.out.accusations of troll or abuse
This person wants to learn - and I want to help facilitate his desire.
Why would you drop The Snark? That's not very nice :p
 

goodoldneon

Arachnoknight
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
243
OK, for your first point, you are correct in your assertion that my guests would freak out if I hosed them down. But they are not captive and reliant upon me for their every need. If they need a bath, they go home and get one. Of course those that are dependent on us do get hosed down from time to time. Invalids get bathed as well as uncooperative prisoners. House guests aren't really in the same situation so I don't think it's very analogous. The fish thing, I'm not sure what that's about. As for the rest, you are absolutely correct, we do strive to make things more palateable/pleasant, but if we can't, we still do it. Thousands of people had body parts removed or other surgeries without anasthetic during the civil war and I bet that was unpleasant. Not everything good is pleasant and not everything pleasant is good. That is my entire point. I'm not arguing in favor of misting, I'm just saying it may not be as bad as you think.
A dog, if you point at something, will look only at your finger.

I'm done.
 

goodoldneon

Arachnoknight
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
243
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean
In essence, you missed the point of my entire rebuttal.

I'll make it as simple as possible - based on negative physical response, tarantulas appear to dislike being sprayed with water, therefore, avoid spraying them with water.
 
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