Determine Aphonopelma sp Guatemala?

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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Greets... Sorry this may be long..

My first real attempt to try and figure out a mystery with one of my T's.

I picked up a beautiful specimen about a year ago from a out of the way LPS that was labeled "Striped Knee" but of course no scientific name. This specimen was not doing too well and for the price I decided to pick it up.

At the time it was light brown with orange spinnerets which many have called Aphonopelma seemanni however I was more content not knowing what it was exactly and just having a new beautiful T.

Once home I properly housed and cared for this T and it soon molted which by my own sexing was female based on all that I had learned on these forums, however, I unfortunately I did not save the molt nor really pay attention to the "type" and "form" of the spermathecae. At the time I was more excited I had a female and I was able to confidently say so!

Fast forward several months..

I was browsing this very site and saw what I felt resembled my girl in both nature and color and while it was debated as A. seemanni there was also some doubts as to the true species of the T at hand. Travis K was the author with an unknown species of spider he was giving to a friends child (I believe) and this started my mind spinning. There was much discussion and back and forth regarding a true A. seemanni, it's coloration, "form" of spermathecae as well it's eye placement. Unfortunately the T in question was given to the child and he was unable to fully find out.

A month or so later it was commented that Eddy Hijmensen had authored an article for the ATS newsletter, titled "Stop! Who Goes There?", revealing this to be a possible new species and was named Aphonopelma sp Guatemala which at time perfectly described my girl.

Various other posts here and abroad have also spoken that T's similar to mine could also be Acanthoscurria borealis which now even complicates things more. Since this point in time, knowing the debate as well comments of others, I was sure the next molt I would try and recover and get better data on this T so it may help myself and others.

Well that time has come and she is freshly molted! I've not gotten any good shots of her yet as she's still burrowed deep however she did honor me but promptly shoving out her old exuvia so that I could provide some pictures here now. One thing I DEFINITELY did notice is she's changed colors dramatically! She's darkened in color so much my wife, peering through the burrow entrance, even asked if that was the same "Roxy" we had before. It's amazing and I hope to get some new shots soon.

Below are some images of prior and of the molt tonight. I'm sorry they are not great shots as this old guy has too much tied up in family things right now to afford a wonderful new camera but I hope it shows some detail that could be debated. If not, well, no issues as well and I've just lost time in this post :)

I'm now off comparing to other images of spermathecae but at this point it doesn't seem like A. seemanni in form however it may not yet be fully developed. I was also not able, with current equipment (Android phone), to gain any shots of the eye placement.

Your thoughts thus far? :?


Here she is roughly 8 months ago:



Tan spinnerets:



Current Molt:





Spermathecae:

 

WARPIG

Arachnoangel
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I have seen and read the threads you quote just because I am in the same boat as you. I have a girl which was purchased as a 'STRIPE KNEE' and looks nothing like an A seemanni.

My gal started life with me with the same coloration as yours, but has since turned a hue of blue.

Here she is one molt after I got her


Here she is molting in here water bowl, (they like it humid while molting)


This is the hue of blue she is sporting, bluer still as she molted a few weeks ago.


I can't add to what it may be, but she is a sweet lookin T.

PIG-
 

metallica

Arachnoking
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The spermathecae looks nothing like that of a Acanthoscurria, so forget about A. borealis. The stripe pattern looks nothing like A. seemanni.

For me this is Aphonopelma sp. "Guatemala"

Eddy
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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The spermathecae looks nothing like that of a Acanthoscurria, so forget about A. borealis. The stripe pattern looks nothing like A. seemanni.

For me this is Aphonopelma sp. "Guatemala"

Eddy
Eddy,

Thanks again for all your study on this both in your article and your messages to me here and abroad! :)

I was very eager to try and capture images this time of the molt so at least I could quickly determine or not A. borealis and like you I completely agree. At least this puts one possible to bed.

Also in your earlier comments and article you mention the cross "swoosh" across the meta-tarsi so I will wait until she hardens and emerges from her burrow and hopefully document that more as well her coloration change. Much like WARPIG's specimen above she's now turned a shade of "blue" which is shocking compared to her earlier and is just amazing the rapid change in such a larger specimen.

Again, many thanks for your work and identification between A. seemanni and sp Guatemala and I constantly go back to your article!

--Richard
 

dianedfisher

Arachnobaron
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I have one as well and I think I love her as much or more than my "true" A.seemanni. After a molt she is striking as I'm sure yours will be. I can't wait for your photos. Diane
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
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We have a T that is like WARPIG's description. When we bought it, it was a beigeish brown with orange spinnerettes. It was labelled by the supplier of the LPS as an A. seemani. To be honest, we jokingly called it our ugliest tarantula and it was an impulse buy on our part. This opinion changed greatly when it molted into a darkish blue color against those orange spinnnerettes! We had it determined that ours was an A. sp.Guatemala. We were not fortunate enough to get the molt in good condition, but post 11 in this thread has pictures of one. They do not look the same to me, but I am no way an expert....not in any way, shape or form, color or texture, flavor or scent, nor should I ever even be considered an expert by anyone......... and I am wearing an eyepatch, but yours seems to hook in while the others I can't see as well, but almost seem to be smooth on the way up. I am calling ours an A. sp. Guatemala, because it matches pictures of others called that species. Yours does look pretty similar, but I'll wait for pictures of it now that it molted to throw in my vote. :)
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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I have seen and read the threads you quote just because I am in the same boat as you.
Yep! I remember those pics too and I'm thinking from what I can see of my girl she's very similar if not a bit darker but again she's not all in the water dish like yours loves to do :)

I have one as well and I think I love her as much or more than my "true" A.seemanni. After a molt she is striking as I'm sure yours will be. I can't wait for your photos. Diane
Thanks Diane and hoping soon she'll emerge for her first meal in about 2 months now. She's one to seal up in her coconut burrow/fortress and take quite awhile to shed those old clothes. Waited now nearly 6 moths from the last molt but these last few days have been rough as I'm really eager to see her!

They do not look the same to me, but I am no way an expert....not in any way, shape or form, color or texture, flavor or scent, nor should I ever even be considered an expert by anyone......... and I am wearing an eyepatch, but yours seems to hook in while the others I can't see as well, but almost seem to be smooth on the way up. I am calling ours an A. sp. Guatemala, because it matches pictures of others called that species. Yours does look pretty similar, but I'll wait for pictures of it now that it molted to throw in my vote. :)
Yup in the same boat I think. The not knowing is weird at times but it's also an enjoyable ride and I'm not too worried about what she is but how's she's doing.

Checked out your pics and while mine are no where near those you listed I do see what you mean about the hooking in and smooth. It's weird as I've been trying to find reference images and while I have a few they either completely don't fit or have properties that are similar but never exact. I'm thinking possibly maturity here is the game I'm playing but again I'll have her for awhile and can only get better :)

Thanks all for the replies and I'll be sure to post some pics, hopefully with a better camera, whence she emerges from her coconut compound ;)

Cheers,
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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Well here's an update! :D

I went and soaked down her sub a bit today since it was that time and boy did she come running out like a streak!

She's fed now 2 times since molting but seems quite reserved and rather just say hunkered down in her hide these days which is quite the opposite as her prior to this last molt.

I did however get some good shots which, clearly, show the color change (lol) between the 2 moltings and is a gorgeous girl! :D

To those who've replied earlier and have such a T is this similar to the colors and changes you've all seen? Anyone still guessing? hehe

Cheers,







 
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curiousme

Arachnoprince
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Nope, no guessing required on my part required! Ours had turned back to his dull brown again and burrowed down for the season. We'll see him in the spring with his new clothes.:D
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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This link has photos of my freshly molted A. sp. "Guatemala" female in the middle of the thread. When I saw your photos I was first drawn to the photo of the almost metallic sheen of the abdomen. You'll see it in my photo as well. I think your T is this species. Very pretty. Diane
http://www.arachnofreaks.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5719&PN=1
Diane,

Yep definitely the same as your girl :)

She's becoming one of my favorites in both her feeding response, activity and presentation!

Took them long enough to molt and harden but boy my girl is re-decorating her home the last few days and pounces on her roaches like she's not eaten in a year, lol.

Thanks for the link and pics @ Arachofreaks

Cheers,
 

WARPIG

Arachnoangel
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And mine makes three. Freshly molted, and still retains blue hue and the sheen that Diane describes in her link.


My Boy Blue is a good lookin gal{D

PIG-
 

metallica

Arachnoking
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I don't really like to answer this way... but in the link supplied by Diane Stan questions my refrences. so i will answer him here.

Pikaia said:
... What, however is stable within many tarantula species is pattern. A seemanni has a straight line from the base of the metatarsus to about halfway down the metatarsus. ...



I was unaware of this. Is this just anecdotal information or has it been verified by taxonomists? If verified, can you supply us with a reference?
Stan,

by now you should know that i usually can back my info up with refrences.
in this case the description of Eurypelma seemanni here:
http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/bca/navigation/bca_08_00_00/bca_08_00_00.cfm?start=40

have fun reading!

cheers

Eddy
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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Great link Eddy and many thanks.. Off to read and bookmark :)
 

pok2010

Arachnopeon
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Aphonopelma sp blue

Aphonopelma sp blue, is what i no this species as ;P looks exactly alike, blue colouring, brown before the molt n so on =]
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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Great stuff Zoltan and as well many thanks for the links!

/bow
 

vvx

Arachnobaron
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Interesting.

Someone pointed out that what I've been calling my A. seemani might be this Aphonopelma sp "Guatemala". I suspect they might be right.





The basis for the distinction between the A. seemanni and the A. sp "Guatemala" appears to be the presence of a "diagonal stripe on the metatarsus".

I'm not spider identification guy. I had to google "metatarsus" and then add "spider" to my google search since it's apparently not a term specific spiders. :) Yes, my science is that bad.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chenlinan/4550345165/

So looks like it's not the very end leg section, but the one right before that.

I tried looking at the article: http://atshq.org/articles/stop_who_goes_there.pdf but the pictures are very low quality and there's no illustrations or anything. I know, I'm obviously not the intended audience for this... Still, I can't even make out the line on the Aphonopelma sp. "Guatemala" on the metatarsus, much less whether the line is a "single short, narrow, central, basal sandy line" or a "diagonal stripe". The lighting seems to obscure the very area of the spider you would be looking for the diagonal stripe in this article?

So, I've got decent pics of mine. Can someone point out exactly what I should be looking for? Assuming it is Aphonopelma sp. "Guatemala", that would make it an "undescribed Aphonopelma species" right? :)
 
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Chris_Skeleton

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It looks like A. seemanni to me. I don't see the diagonal line you are referring to on yours, but it may just be the pics though.
 
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