Deformed T. blondi fangs, again....

[Talkenlate04]

it certainly CAN happen. But this is why (IMO) males mature faster and one or two molts AHEAD of their female siblings. I believe that it is nature's way of preventing as much inbreeding as possible. And like LRG said, there are other genetic lines inhabiting the same areas.

Also, I don't believe that inbreeding is nearly as much a problem with inverts as it is with mamals, birds, reptiles, etc....
I have read a paper (dont ask, i forgot where) that discussed inbreeding in inverts, and that's what I came away with.

You should re read what I said. I am not talking about sibling mating. I am saying that males from an egg sac proberly mate with their mothers or sisters of the mothers more then you think.

 

[NBond1986]

You should re read what I said. I am not talking about sibling mating. I am saying that males from an egg sac proberly mate with their mothers or sisters of the mothers more then you think.

while that may certainly happen, I didn't fail to notice what you said. I addressed that issue by stating that inbreeding with inverts is generally less of a problem (less likelyhood of illeffects) than with other animals.

 

[Tarangela]

Update: Hand feeding this T. blondi

So, this weekend, I took pics of feeding this T. blondi, Raggs. I am not having to hand feed her, and usually it's a decent experience, but last night she was a hellion to catch. Running, kicking, and hissing.

I am attaching pics of me hand feeding her. Enjoy.

I am praying she will make it through this....and have another successful molt...

 

[treeweta]

I had a 6 inch blondi moult 3 1/2 months ago (to a 7 inch size), she lost her fangs and has never been fed anything other than crickets and roaches (no mice)

As she is a juvenile her abdomen shrunk at the moult and it really is quite small now, i tried to feed her in a similar fashion is you but im not sure how much food she ingested, im just hoping she will make an emergency moult. Her sibling who is now a moult ahead and has perfect fangs.

I'm not convinced that low humididty can cause the fangs to tear out, youd expect the long legs to get stuck way before there was any issue with fangs. Unfortunatley the data is so low that its probably impossible to connect any causes to fang loss.

 

[treeweta]

tarangela. So how do you rate the success of feeding in this way? thats an adult blondi yes? As she doesnt need to grow (like a juvenile would) maybe she will get through another moult OK on the reserves she has. Oh and what are you feeding there, mealworm mush? is it diluted atall?

another option i tried with mine is to put it in a thick polythene bag , tie a knot over/behind the spider so its held tight (ensure the legs are curled naturally) cut a hole in the bag over the mouth and add the food to the mouth, the spider is held and cannot wriggle, you can also leave it upsidedown.

 

[Tarangela]

tarangela. So how do you rate the success of feeding in this way? thats an adult blondi yes? As she doesnt need to grow (like a juvenile would) maybe she will get through another moult OK on the reserves she has. Oh and what are you feeding there, mealworm mush? is it diluted atall?

another option i tried with mine is to put it in a thick polythene bag , tie a knot over/behind the spider so its held tight (ensure the legs are curled naturally) cut a hole in the bag over the mouth and add the food to the mouth, the spider is held and cannot wriggle, you can also leave it upsidedown.

treeweta,

Thanks for your questions, I will try to answer them as best as I can. Here is the method I use. This is kinda hard to explain, but it works for me.

I take a piece of wax paper, and usually crush around 10-15 med. to large crickets. I put the cricket inside the edge of the wax paper, and fold the other piece over the cricket. Think of cricket sandwhich. Then, I take the end of a pencil, the eraser part, and at an angle, hit the bottom end of the cricket. This causes the cricket's insides to burst out from the end. That is gross, but quicker and easier.

Then, I take the watery insides of the cricket, and start a pile on the other end of the wax paper. I repeat this process until I have mooshed up all the crickets. When I have a gooey pile about 1/2" around. Then, I spray just a little water on that pile of cricket goo. All of this being on wax paper, I can use it all, and none of the nutrients are absorbed into a paper towel or anything.

Make sure the cricket goo doesn't have any hard parts of the cricket in it, she can't get that down. Imagine trying to suck a lemon seed through a straw. Then, get your sharp pointed tweezers ready.

NOW, you are ready to pick her up. I used latex gloves b/c her hairs really make me itch.

I am right handed, so I pick her up w/ my left hand. I use the holding method. She usually fusses a little, kicks some hairs or hisses at me, but all is well. Anyway, I pick her up, and she doesn't wiggle on me. First, I take a little water and put it on her mouth area, to get her ready.

Then, I take the tweezers and pick up the cricket goo, and put it in her mouth, and work it around a bit w/ the tweezers, adding a little water every now and then, to help it all go down.

This whole process takes about 30 minutes. I don't put her down until I see most of it gone. Then, I will gently set her back down in the cage. She cooperates very well at this stage, and when I let her go, she will take her pedipalps and put them under her mouth area like she did when she would hold food, when she had fangs. And will sit like that until she is done. I usually catch her grooming about an hour or more after this.

This is all complicated at first, but then, when you realize how necessary it is, it becomes an every other day task. She may not be getting all of it down, but she has to be getting some.

I did this a year ago when another T. blondi broke it's fangs during a molt. It lasted about 7-8 months before she died She had mites.

I hope this all works out, and will keep everyone posted. It was very sad to see her molted and have NO fangs If you have any questions, please let me know.....

 

[treeweta]

tarangela. thanks for that info.

Today i put the spider in the bag again, this is easier than holding I reckon as you are holding the bag so to speak rather than the constant precise handling when you have the spider in your hand, i imagine that it could almost give you cramp after a while. Anyway i got a small earthworm and chopped it fine with scissors, then added some drops of water, I used a tiny wire loop (i had no dropper) and put the liquid bit by bit in the T mouth, the 'brushes' around the mouth seemed to draw the liquid in, the spider did respond with some chelicera movements, i guess she took about 1/2 teaspoon in total. Anyway hopefully the diluteness of the mush isnt aproblem but at this stage shes not much choice. I realised i made a mistake with the worm as it could hold parasites (nematodes arrrgh) so ive isolated it ayway for the time being. I tested to see if she was still hungry beforehand (and not in premoult, which she could still do i suppose), i put a roach in and she went crazy for it but couldnt do a thing, so yes shes still needing food. next time i will use a bit of a roach (i'll freeze one) and mash it and then feed the spider the very dilute mush. What i fed the spider taday was less a mush than a watery solution of worm juice, kind of a T drip. I'll see how she goes over the next day. she probably got the equivalent of half a cricket so i'll have to repeat this quite often!

 

[treeweta]

on the subject of worms and other foods, when i first got t's in the Uk i'd feed them on wild caught worms and in summer the plentiful underwing moths, i never had nematodes or issues with any spiders. part of me wonders if the nematodes are simply opportunists accidentally introduced from food or maybe t specific and coming in from wild caught T's.

 

[Tarangela]

tarangela. thanks for that info.

Today i put the spider in the bag again, this is easier than holding I reckon as you are holding the bag so to speak rather than the constant precise handling when you have the spider in your hand, i imagine that it could almost give you cramp after a while. Anyway i got a small earthworm and chopped it fine with scissors, then added some drops of water, I used a tiny wire loop (i had no dropper) and put the liquid bit by bit in the T mouth, the 'brushes' around the mouth seemed to draw the liquid in, the spider did respond with some chelicera movements, i guess she took about 1/2 teaspoon in total. Anyway hopefully the diluteness of the mush isnt aproblem but at this stage shes not much choice. I realised i made a mistake with the worm as it could hold parasites (nematodes arrrgh) so ive isolated it ayway for the time being. I tested to see if she was still hungry beforehand (and not in premoult, which she could still do i suppose), i put a roach in and she went crazy for it but couldnt do a thing, so yes shes still needing food. next time i will use a bit of a roach (i'll freeze one) and mash it and then feed the spider the very dilute mush. What i fed the spider taday was less a mush than a watery solution of worm juice, kind of a T drip. I'll see how she goes over the next day. she probably got the equivalent of half a cricket so i'll have to repeat this quite often!

treeweta,

That is a good method you are using. I am glad to hear you are giving her another chance at life. I just don't think I can do worms yet I always hated putting them on a hook when fishing! I will stick w/ crickets for now.

Let's keep touch about these blondis.....I wish you the best w/ your feeding.
I feed mine about every other day. Tedious, but worth it, if she molts and grows new razor fangs

 

[rknralf]

Just a thought...

Could you use a commercial wet cat/dog food? In most cases it is pretty fine consistency. Add some water to make a soupy mix and feed that to her? Not sure if you had tried this as I didn't read the entire thread.
One small can would be enough for several feeding and could be stored in the refrigerator in between feedings.

Good luck with her.
Ralph

 

[Tarangela]

Could you use a commercial wet cat/dog food? In most cases it is pretty fine consistency. Add some water to make a soupy mix and feed that to her? Not sure if you had tried this as I didn't read the entire thread.
One small can would be enough for several feeding and could be stored in the refrigerator in between feedings.

Good luck with her.
Ralph

Yes, I had thought about that, I am just a little weary about the high fat content and processed stuff that is in cat/dog food. It's a very good idea,
I just don't want my girl to be the test rat for trying it

 

[AfterTheAsylum]

I'm curious of the care that everyone uses for their T. blondis. I have cared for them for a long time, and I have so many, but outside of wild caught, I haven't had problems.

 

[treeweta]

aftertheasylum.

Ive kept blondis/apophysis for over 10 years and never had significant issues save bad luck. Last year all 4 got 'white paste in mouth disease' which killed 2 spiderlings within days, im putting this down to crickets but none of my king baboons or megaphobema got ill. The two larger animals that got the disease one is now fine at 8 inches and as normal as i could expect, its sibling is the one without fangs. I have been keeping them drier than normal but that was after they got the paste disease as there were also mites in the tanks that seemed to infest the spiders more when they were stressed. since using roaches ive got rid of the mites, the white paste BUT only issue now is fangless.

 

[treeweta]

tarangela, re the blondi, have you noticed the abdomen getting any larger. A pair of scientific scales would be useful to see if the T's are actually ingesting any material. NOt that im going to buy a set!!

 

[treeweta]

ive fed the spider a few times now and this method seems to be working. i put a roach in the freezer and each time i feed the blondi i cut a section from the roach, remove the exoskeleton, mush and add distilled water until quite thinly diluted (our water is very limey). using a magnifying glass i could actualy see something moving rhythmically in the mouth, im guessing thats the openingto the pharynx actually taking the fluid in. i'll try it every other day and hopefully within few months she will have put on some weight. hopefully the lack of venom doesnt cause a problem.

 

[DrAce]

hopefully the lack of venom doesnt cause a problem.

On that note, I was of the understanding that the venom also contains digestive properties.

Perhaps a modification of your 'strategy' would be to have one of your other tarantulas (if you have them handy, a Blondi) kill and envenomate a roach/worm/other and then manually homogenise and feed them. This might enhance the digestion going on.

Of course, that all hinges on getting the victim out of the clutches of your attacking spider.

 

[treeweta]

DR Ace. well thats an idea but im not sure im goingto push my feeding attempts too far!!

Now im not sure if this is a bad sign but after this mornings dripfeed the spider preened itself as if had a normal meal but i now notice the fangs (what there is of them) are held open. Im not sure thats a good indication but i'll see how it is in a day or so.

 

[pink'n'curly]

can i just ask ...when you guys say "hand feed" a spider, does that just mean using tweezers to give prey items to the T's...or is there more to it than that?
just curious....good luck btw...got my fingers crossed for ya.

 

[travisamone]

can i just ask ...when you guys say "hand feed" a spider, does that just mean using tweezers to give prey items to the T's...or is there more to it than that?
just curious....good luck btw...got my fingers crossed for ya.

maybe if you would read a little of the thread your posting in before you post you would find out.

 

[B.L.]

If this ever happens to my T. I'm going to put it down. I'm glad that people are willing to go to great lengths for their T Blondi but personally I am not able to do that. I would not try to breed a T Blondi that has had molt problems either in case it is genetic. I like my T. Blondi...but there is limits to what I can do. It seems like they end up dying anyway....why make them suffer.