Day old chicks

Talkenlate04

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Thanks for the reply.
I am not sure, but from reading posts here I have the feeling that almost everyone feed vert prey before breeding. am I right?
No the minority do. He’s doing it because he thinks it might be better for them, and he may be right I have nothing that backs up that its not. But I don’t have anything that backs up that it is.

Most breeders make sure the females are well fed before a breeding. In my case I let them eat all the roaches they want. And when they start to ignore offered items then I offer her a mate. This tends to lessen the chance the female is going to just ignore the males mating vibrations and murder the male. Seems to calm the defensive females down a lot and make them more receptive to mating instead of killing and eating.
 

cacoseraph

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yup that's what i said I can only find the chicks nutritional value, not the T's nutritional requirements! :razz:

About the knowledge, like you said there isn't a lot of scientific knowelege but at least one article I found on the net about breeding blondi's used pinkies. I can post the link if you want.
i would like to read about it. thanks :)



and like talken said, i would guess that vert pre-breeding feeding is the minority practice
 

ricneto

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No the minority do. He’s doing it because he thinks it might be better for them, and he may be right I have nothing that backs up that its not. But I don’t have anything that backs up that it is.

Most breeders make sure the females are well fed before a breeding. In my case I let them eat all the roaches they want. And when they start to ignore offered items then I offer her a mate. This tends to lessen the chance the female is going to just ignore the males mating vibrations and murder the male. Seems to calm the defensive females down a lot and make them more receptive to mating instead of killing and eating.
Thanks for replying Talknlate.
It is good to know that some people are successfull breeding without vert prey. I assume you managed to breed them! right?
 

cacoseraph

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Thanks for replying Talknlate.
It is good to know that some people are successfull breeding without vert prey. I assume you managed to breed them! right?
heh
talken has produce a spiderling or two or... 800? he just had a "bloom" of B. smithis
 

Anansis

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For everyones info, day old chicks are still living off the yolk which is now internal. They do this for about 2 to 3 days before they start to eat on their own. A day old chick is not much more than yolk, skin, bones and pinfeathers. Seems like very messy proposition!

Ollie
 

Drachenjager

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SO back to the calcium thing, We have enough evidence to state that high calicum MAY be a factor in bad molts, or we think, or believe it does. OR we have antedoctial evidence it does. We can not say for a FACT it does. BUT , this dosent mean it is not fact, just that we cant say it is for sure.

HMMM
And yes Andrew, this really has noting to do with YOU saying this. I have alterior motives. Actually practicing for something entirely differant from this discussion but it does fit lol
lol I am quoting myself lol
This is to Caco seraph lol Just pointing out part of my quote you may have missed lol
Here is what I was trying to point out by all that.
There are many things what we can and can not state as fact. The statement that all dinosaurs are extinct may be fact, but if you state it as fact you may very well be wrong. Coelacanth was stated as fact to be extinct for blah blah million years, and guess what ...it isn’t lol
The calcium issue, we shouldn’t state that it in fact causes bad molts because we just don’t have any good scientific proof that it does, BUT we do have some evidence based on observations by hobbyist that it MAY do just that. SO as a responsible Tarantula keeper we probably SHOULD act as if it is fact. NOT say its fact but for our purposes it may as well be fact, as we can avoid the POTENTIAL for it to affect our pets and still not harm the nutritional needs of the bugs. So IMO we shouldn’t feed lots of vertebrates to our bugs because the high calcium diet MAY cause bad molts. It may not but I don’t think we should take the chance.

NOW as to Ryan asking for proof that feeding the pinkies to a female helping in reproduction. Again, not really aimed at Ryan, just a note. It seems to me that if someone says “I believe..." it means they believe that to me true, not that they have proof it is otherwise they would have said "Feeding pinkies to my females helps in reproduction..." SO I understand you weren’t attacking Caco Seraph for stating that and were just wanting some proof , I only mentioned it because as YOU have seen when people are wanting proof for things you say you think or believe lol people don’t understand believe means just that. I believe in God, but to ask for proof is somewhat silly I think. Same as If I said I believe feeding mice to Ts causes bad molts, I can’t provide you proof either way, but I believe it does. So I don’t feed them. I would however like to see a study on feeding rodents to Ts. I would like to have a legit study done to see if:
A. It helps in reproduction to feed a pinkie to an expecting mom or before breeding
B. if in fact a high calcium diet, IE rodents, cause bad molts or at least increases the risk there of.
But I doubt that will ever happen.

I have a problem with people(mainly "religious leaders") who state as Biblical fact things that either A. aren’t mentioned at all in the Bible or B are actually stated as the opposite of their position in the Bible. The same type reasoning fits here as there. That was my ulterior motive.
 

cacoseraph

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2138 smithis...............:D
few other species to this year but everyone knows of my smithis.
i want to make a joke about parahybana and smithis... but i got nothing

instead of the Man with the Golden Gun we should start calling you the Man with the Red Knees



edit:
that is nuts, btw. i had a multispecial bloom last summer, something like 600-700 babies and i was absolutely drowning. good thing that you have slow growers... would be hard to keep up with feeding in the summer otherwise, i would think.
 

Talkenlate04

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I don't know if I like the whole "man with red knees" title. Being a military man that well.......... means something else. :p

Imagine if they could make some sort of noise letting me know they needed to be fed....... Id be kept up all night!
 

Merfolk

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For everyones info, day old chicks are still living off the yolk which is now internal. They do this for about 2 to 3 days before they start to eat on their own. A day old chick is not much more than yolk, skin, bones and pinfeathers. Seems like very messy proposition!

Ollie

Actually though about feeding birds, but not chicks. I would instead go for older chicks of smaller species. Quails chicks, juvie canary... name anything small (but I have a sweet spot for hummingbirds) If you saw an avic go after a moth, just picture it on a larger scale!
 

cacoseraph

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I don't know if I like the whole "man with red knees" title. Being a military man that well.......... means something else. :p

Imagine if they could make some sort of noise letting me know they needed to be fed....... Id be kept up all night!

hmmm. i couldn't get a good fast googling on the mil thing. but from inference and knowing what a dirty minded lot you are... would knee pads help with the red knees?


it's probably best that they can't make hungry noises!
... though, it would make finding them in nature easier. heh.
 

julesaussies

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They are less reach in calcium than a mouse so they are probably better for T's as I read somewhere that too much calcium can cause moult problems.
Just curious where you were able to find out the calcium contents for the different species (chick/mouse)??
 

julesaussies

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The other reason I asked this is because egg layers are wormed and therefore will not have nematodes (or shouldn't) and the day old chick will definitely not have them.

And no, I do not have any information on the nutritional value of crickets or roaches but that information for a day old chick should be easy to find out.
It seems as though if nematodes or other parasites are your main concern, you would be stuck feeding day old chicks or other 'wormed' vertibrates for all meals. Obviously feeding an occasional vertibrate meal is not likely to protect your T from nematode/parasite infections contracted through other prey items. So, i guess i just don't get your point on this reason??? :confused:

I was just asking if someone experienced feeding day old chicks instead of pinkies or mice (dead) when trying to breed?
Sorry, you didn't mention breeding in your first post so i didn't realize you were asking for nutritional information for breeding purposes:

Quote ricneto: "Day old chicks

I have been wondering if someone have fed T's with day old chicks and I finally conviced myself to ask it after seeing the pic of the parahybana eating one (not sure about the spwcies )
They are less reach in calcium than a mouse so they are probably better for T's as I read somewhere that too much calcium can cause moult problems."

What I meant is that I can get the nutritional value of day old chick. not the nutritional needs for a T.
I have been looking for info and I did not found anything.
Actually, that is why i had asked about where you found the information about the difference in calcium values in day old chicks vs. pinkies/mice. And if so, just how much of the nutrients of a vertibrate does a T actually ingest?? i have no idea because i have never fed any to my T's nor do i plan on it (in case you couldn't tell... :) ) When T's digest a vertibrate do the soft new bones of a day old chick get ingested? The same as a pinkie? Mature mouse? i have no idea... i mean sure, its easy enough to look up nutritional values of chickens as people eat them all the time but in general we don't eat the bone. Do T's? Is that why vertibrates are considered such a high calcium meal? i am honestly asking as i have no idea??
 

julesaussies

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Actually though about feeding birds, but not chicks. I would instead go for older chicks of smaller species. Quails chicks, juvie canary... name anything small (but I have a sweet spot for hummingbirds) If you saw an avic go after a moth, just picture it on a larger scale!

Oh yeah, and i think those cute little zebra finches are pretty cheap and breed like mice. Of course you wouldn't want to pre-kill them because that would take out all the fun of the entertainment factor. i think i'll just stick to hummingbirds!!
 

ricneto

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It seems as though if nematodes or other parasites are your main concern, you would be stuck feeding day old chicks or other 'wormed' vertibrates for all meals. Obviously feeding an occasional vertibrate meal is not likely to protect your T from nematode/parasite infections contracted through other prey items. So, i guess i just don't get your point on this reason??? :confused:



Sorry, you didn't mention breeding in your first post so i didn't realize you were asking for nutritional information for breeding purposes:

Quote ricneto: "Day old chicks

I have been wondering if someone have fed T's with day old chicks and I finally conviced myself to ask it after seeing the pic of the parahybana eating one (not sure about the spwcies )
They are less reach in calcium than a mouse so they are probably better for T's as I read somewhere that too much calcium can cause moult problems."



Actually, that is why i had asked about where you found the information about the difference in calcium values in day old chicks vs. pinkies/mice. And if so, just how much of the nutrients of a vertibrate does a T actually ingest?? i have no idea because i have never fed any to my T's nor do i plan on it (in case you couldn't tell... :) ) When T's digest a vertibrate do the soft new bones of a day old chick get ingested? The same as a pinkie? Mature mouse? i have no idea... i mean sure, its easy enough to look up nutritional values of chickens as people eat them all the time but in general we don't eat the bone. Do T's? Is that why vertibrates are considered such a high calcium meal? i am honestly asking as i have no idea??
Thanks for your reply. I do not have the information about the difference between mice and chick. I can get the chick nutritional value. I remember it was on a university textbook.

It exactly due to the lack of info that I posted. I think this is one of the best places to get info and share experience with experienced people.
I mentioned the nematodes because that seems to be the main concern of t's parasites. At least in forums. But egg layers are treated with coccidiostatic and arthoropode parasites. hence withdrawal period

But like it was mentioned by you and more people I do not know as well the T's nutritional requirements. I remember reading somewhere that mice are richer than day old chicks. I think in a book for reptiles (snakes) but again I am not sure if it is a scientific statement or not. :?

And I am sorry for not being spicit. I meant to ask about feeding it for breeding purposes.

I do not know the calcium content from the top of my head but I will post it when I find it. I will try to find the calcium content for the mice as well, not very confident about it though.
 

verry_sweet

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Everyone seems to have read “somewhere” that mice (calcium) are bad for T’s and they cause bad molts. I very much doubt that. Not that I condone feeding verts there is no need for it.

But

I have a CB (now gravid) 6” G. rosea bought on 10-1-99 as a spiderling. She was fed nothing but pinkies and mice once a month her entire life until I received her last year. She’s very healthy, no cracking of her exo constantly busy building burrows….. Point is she has no ill affects that I can see.

I stand strong that there is no need to feed verts though.

The breeders that are very deep in to this hobby and make it their life’s work do experiment and test different food but I believe they have a reason and are experienced enough to see the positives and negative. Not every “wanna-be” who just thinks it’ll be fun to try.

Actually if you call some of the big boys (whom been around for centuries lol) will tell you there is no need for verts even for a breeding female.
 

ricneto

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Everyone seems to have read “somewhere” that mice (calcium) are bad for T’s and they cause bad molts. I very much doubt that. Not that I condone feeding verts there is no need for it.

But

I have a CB (now gravid) 6” G. rosea bought on 10-1-99 as a spiderling. She was fed nothing but pinkies and mice once a month her entire life until I received her last year. She’s very healthy, no cracking of her exo constantly busy building burrows….. Point is she has no ill affects that I can see.

I stand strong that there is no need to feed verts though.

The breeders that are very deep in to this hobby and make it their life’s work do experiment and test different food but I believe they have a reason and are experienced enough to see the positives and negative. Not every “wanna-be” who just thinks it’ll be fun to try.

Actually if you call some of the big boys (whom been around for centuries lol) will tell you there is no need for verts even for a breeding female.
Thanks for your reply verry sweet.

I am still very much a begginer and a long way to go but as you put it I am a "wanna bee" and that is why i was curious to see if some experienced breeder routinely used chicks for preparing the females for breeding instead of mice. just because I realised some people do feed mice/pinkies to larger T's blondi's etc.

I am glad that inverts are enough for T's I personally do not have any will to feed mice or chicks to T's if I can avoid it eventhough I do not condemn it.
 

ricneto

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Thanks for the reply 4x4.
I can only open the pic. Is there any info on it. Did they only fed chicks?
It does look a bit messy.
 

Merfolk

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I know that arboreals eat birds sometimes, but for a terrestrial??? it's pretty unusual food. Dunno if if a bird is then properly digested.
 
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