cyriopagopus paganus

[baker]

cyriopagopus paganus,

hi everyone, i am a newbie to this site . It seems like everyone in here is super helpful . I was wondering if anyone has any info on a Thailand Tiger aka Asian Chevron, Earth Tiger. I should be receiving mine tomorrow and i already have a Costa Rican Zebra. I found lots of info on the zebra but have not managed to find much on the Tiger , so any info anyone could give me would be great.
Thanks All
Baker

 

[JacenBeers]

http://hem.spray.se/minax/artskotsel/paganus_e.html

http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/crawlingterror/CyriopagopusPaganus.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/8276/cpaganus.html

 

[Weapon-X]

re

hey, from what i know(i have one about 4.5 '') , exremly aggressive, mine has'nt even attempted to make a burrow, its webbed up the keeper pretty good though, it has a hide but dos'nt use it, i keep the soil slighty moist and spray the tank every other day, also from what i've been told and what i've read, you proly won't get a real cyriopagagopus paganus, but a Haplopelma Sp./Haplopelma longipedum/cyriopagopus paganus if this is correct, there are some people here who are pretty dam good with haplopelmas, try asking volker von wirth, martin H., or Haploman these guys have some great knowledge on the subject, i myself have really gotten into asians and am dedeicating a great part of my collection to them, good luck with your new t---Jeff

 

[Cronoss]

These spiders are pure EVIL.
but look very cool as adults.they seem to have a very hi metabolism.need to be fed more often than other t's
hope this helps
Bryan

 

[Joy]

Originally posted by mmmmdonuts
These spiders are pure EVIL.
Bryan

Now, Bryan, I believe they're not evil at all, merely misunderstood. How would YOU feel if you were a Haplopelma, and yet people went around calling you a Cyriopagopus?

Joy

 

[LaRiz]

Joy, I read this thread and thought I'd say something about the word, but changed my mind. Then I read it again, with your comment. Again, I changed my mind.
This is not only directed at Bryan, but to all the hobbyists who like to use flash adjectives such as "evil" to describe tarantulas, and such.
Please keep in mind, that evil is man made. No animal on the planet should really be called that.
It just doesn't make sense to me. Evil does not represent an animal's spirit to survive.
I'd like to destroy this other word, used to describe the more fiesty lot of tarantulas, and all animals for that matter by ALOT of people in this great hobby; "Aggressive".
I wouldn't say that this word is a good choice to describe these unruley beasts. To me, aggressive sounds like this: I open a lid to a Brachypelma smithi, and the darn thing shoots out and chases me all around the room.
Another example: My kids are asleep, it's been a long week for me. My wife is awake for once and the timing is right. I would become "aggressive", though not showing true "aggression" .
A better word to describe the "spicey ones", would be...yup, "defensive". Some are a tad more defensive than others. For example, my Grammostola pulchra is just chilling out. The water dish is "unusually" filled with substrate (unusually? this is fantasy), I reach in it's enclosure to clean it and fill 'er up. The sudden air movement of something large and perhaps predatory startles this Brazilian Black into a full threat display. Legs I and II pairs, raised more than vertically, cephalothorax painfully arched backwards, fangs bared 90 degrees. She loses it. Flops backwards, biting at nothing but air, walking upside-down, on her little spider elbows. I could hear a low "growl". {fade to balck} That would be "defensive", but NOT "aggressive".
john

 

[Cronoss]

geez people it was just a figure of speach.
lighten up .

and i'm sorry LaRiz but i don't agree. I deal with alot of wannabe
tarantula keepers,newb's if you will.and words like aggressive,
mean ,evil are word newb's understand.I don't want new people
to the trade to start with a Haplopelma,or king baboon,and so on.
they'll get bite the first day.then they'll drop the t's and go get a dog or cat or somthing.
Bryan:?

oh and I do agree with Joy

 

[LaRiz]

Originally posted by mmmmdonuts
geez people it was just a figure of speach.
lighten up .
and i'm sorry LaRiz but i don't agree. I deal with alot of wannabe
tarantula keepers,newb's if you will.and words like aggressive,
mean ,evil are word newb's understand.I don't want new people
to the trade to start with a Haplopelma,or king baboon,and so on.
they'll get bite the first day.then they'll drop the t's and go get a dog or cat or somthing.
Bryan:?
oh and I do agree with Joy

Fair enough,
Yes it was figure of speech. Too many hobbyists use that to describe old world species and some new worlders for that matter.
There's nobody lighter here than us.
I deal with a lot of newbies too, and I'm straight up with them. Remember not all newbies aren't dummies. Not once do I say that there is evil among us. Again, I know a figure of speech.
But, what I don't want is people to convey that some of these "evil" species go around and bite like crazy. You have to provoke, in most cases.
What I posted was indeed figures of speech in itself. Everybody should know the differences between evil and aggression and defensiveness, newbies and old timers alike. I just wanted to point that out, since nobody addressed it, that I'm aware of.
Most of these defensive behaviors are poorly understood. Joy proves this time and time again, when she handles some really evil and naughty species. Time to open our eyes and stop perpetuating myths. The spread of more than accurate information is the trend.
Oh, Bryan, what is it that you agree about with Joy? because in my eyes I only re-iterated on what she said. She's just more tactful than I. God bless her.

 

[petitegreeneyes]

John is right. I think I even use to use the word "evil" but they aren't evil just being defensive. I have some that can be really aggressive when provoked and some that seem aggressive but they are just hearty eaters that can't wait when the lid is open, so they come up to greet their dinner!

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by LaRiz

A better word to describe the "spicey ones", would be...yup, "defensive".

Seems that some spiders (and snakes) tend to subscribe to the theory that the best defence is a good offence.

If I was to call something defensive yes a threat display would fit nicely. BUT when it charges at you and strikes with no provocation besides you changing the water dish... well that is offensive defence.

This one seems to fall in the grey area as far as I am concerned so I will just say this... all you newbs keep your damn hands out of the cage and we won't need to describe anything as aggro or defensive lol

 

[MrDeranged]

Originally posted by Chris
Seems that some spiders (and snakes) tend to subscribe to the theory that the best defence is a good offence.

If I was to call something defensive yes a threat display would fit nicely. BUT when it charges at you and strikes with no provocation besides you changing the water dish... well that is offensive defence.

IMO, not really. It just means that it's defending against what it takes as an intrusion into it's personal space. Some T's just have a lot more personal space then others. If a tarantula tries to attack you and you get away from it, it's not going to keep coming after you. Lets say for instance, you're sitting in a room and not moving. You're surrounded by tarantulas of all species. I seriously doubt that if you don't make a move that any of the tarantulas are going to run up and attack you just because you are there. They need to sense in their little brains that there's a threat before they're going to do anything. Reacting to a threat is defensive behavior, not aggressive.

Scott

 

[Code Monkey]

OK hairsplitters: aggressive can be defined as "tending toward or exhibiting hostile, injurious, or destructive behavior or outlook especially when caused by frustration, e.g aggressive behavior, marked by combative readiness e.g. an aggressive fighter."
Sounds like a pretty good description of certain species. So, quibble all you want, it doesn't change the fact that aggressive is a perfectly good word for aggressive/defensive/spicy/nasty/grumpier-than-a-smithi- tarantulas. I use aggressive to describe such Ts and I'm hardly going to change because of what amounts to political correctness in the T community.

What matter is that people understand what the word means in the context of tarantulas, not what *word* is used. Aggressive means exactly the same thing as defensive in relation to Ts, but, despite the PC bandwagon, it the more commonly used term, you would be better off making sure that people knew what T behaviour was like instead of giving sermons on why we should all avoid that "hateful, nasty, misleading word".

Example: I go up to somebody's door and knock, the guy responds by firing several rounds through the door at me. Somehow, I don't see the point in arguing the fine points of whether his behavior was aggressive or defensive in an objective sense, it was sure as hell aggressive against *me*.

 

[Tangled WWWeb]

I think it's a matter of perception. One of the definitions of aggressive , according to The American Heritage Dictionary , is " inclined to hostile behavior". In that definition of the word it doesn't necessitate that the " hostile behavior" be unprovoked. This also would depend on whether or not you perceived the act of biting as hostile behavior. So at least by one definition of the word someone could arguably describe some tarantulas as aggressive.

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by mrderanged
IMO, not really. It just means that it's defending against what it takes as an intrusion into it's personal space. Some T's just have a lot more personal space then others. If a tarantula tries to attack you and you get away from it, it's not going to keep coming after you. Lets say for instance, you're sitting in a room and not moving. You're surrounded by tarantulas of all species. I seriously doubt that if you don't make a move that any of the tarantulas are going to run up and attack you just because you are there. They need to sense in their little brains that there's a threat before they're going to do anything. Reacting to a threat is defensive behavior, not aggressive.

Scott

The point I was trying to make was that while many spiders will run and hide when they feel threatened, some spiders prefer to stay and fight. The spiders that are labelled as aggressive are the ones that don't like to run but prefer to threat and/or bite (offensive defense). Maybe we should call them brave instead of aggressive? lol

 

[Code Monkey]

And if the 'aggressive' Ts are really 'defensive', then what are the 'defensive' Ts? Docile? That's equally misleading. In terms of delineating tarantula behavior, aggressive and defensive does a fine job and attempts to be PC about it are just going to introduce more hair splitting and more gray areas.

 

[LaRiz]

All sounds logical. My prefence though, is not to use the word aggressive. I'm not really expecting anybody to drop the word when describing some species. A good discussion is good enough for me.
Okay then, I open my lid to Brachypelma smith enclosure, she senses the open top, and flicks urticating hair 'til she's bald. Would that be aggressive or defensive?
To me, no matter what way a tarantula points when you molest it, it's still defensive. Either it's butt is aimed at you, or the "business end", complete with extended fangs, it all means the same thing..."get away from me".
Theres a fine line here between the two words when, describing tarantulas, at least.
Good stuff here.
But what about Cyriopagopus paganus? Sorry Baker, I'll see if I could dig up some more detailed info on that species.
john

 

[baker]

Well the way I see it is LaRiz is headed in the right direction with the agressive bit, and I'm sure we can all hold on to the word we like most to describe such actions. It's all football to me,lol.

 

[Martin H.]

Originally posted by mmmmdonuts

... I deal with alot of wannabe tarantula keepers,newb's if you will.and words like aggressive, mean ,evil are word newb's understand.I don't want new people to the trade to start with a Haplopelma,or king baboon,and so on.
they'll get bite the first day.then they'll drop the t's and go get a dog or cat or somthing.

If someone gets bitten in the first day IMHO he should consider if it might be better for him and his surrounding to keep cats, guinea pigs or any other harmless puppys and not a "potential dangerous" critter like a tarantula!
IMHO tarantulas are nothing to play with and handle for own plessure, they are still wild animals!

just my two cents,
Martin

 

[Wade]

It's hard not to split hairs when the possibilities of behaviors can have such a broad range. Filing everything under either "docile" or "aggressive" doesn't cut it IMO. It has nothing to do with political correctness, but simple accuracy. I don't have any problem with the word "aggressive", as most of us here know what is meant when it's used, but there are a range of unrelated behaviors that could be interpeted as this.

When my N. carapnoensis charges at anything that touches the substrate, I call that aggressive, because she's responding as if it were prey, i.e., it is a genuine attack.

On the other hand, there's Pterinochilus, that will rise up into a threat position at the slightest touch. Technically, I'd say it's defensive, but since the likleyhood of being bitten is still pretty high (assuming one insited on continuing to mess with it), I have no objections to the word aggressive, simply because it conveys the simple message "it will bite with little provocation".

Other variations exist, Poecilotheria will bite if grabbed, but IME they only want to run away and generally don't even assume the threat posture unless absolutly cornered. I have a hard time calling this aggressive.

The problem with the docile/aggressive dichotomy is the uninformed will tend to read alot into the words. If you call a spider "docile" many will assume it means it's a good one for handling, and that's not always the case. If you call it "aggressive" they will assume it's dangerous. Neither is necessarily the case, however.

In the end, however, I doubt the words are going anywhere. Anyone who is misled by them will eventually get the facts if they stick with the hobby long enough. Although I refrain from using colorful words like "evil" and "vicious" to describe animals, I think most people who do use them do so out of admiration

Wade

 

[looseyfur]

alien

The animal and insect mind will always be alien to us. How or when a T decides to bite you has nothing to do with its aggression "label" they should have never stated it that way in all the care sheets in the first place. ALL, not some, not a few, not one, ALL tarantulas can bite. they bite noobs and they bite expierenced keepers all the same. As Joy has demonstrated over and over its more about YOU then them. And as someone else stated in this tread "keep your damn hands out of the tank" you need to spend serious time watching your T to see what its gig is and even then it can an will bite you for a myrid of reason most of which we will never understand. Does that make it aggressive or docile , thats to quibble over terms indeed. It makes it a big hairy spider with instincts and thoughts and feelings so alien to us (well maybe not joy) that every time with every T you take your chances-
There are more important things about their behavior which need some light shed on them like perhaps how long they live in the wild? I dont tend to make much sence maybe even my thought process is a bit alien eh?

enjoy-
looseyfur

E.